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| User Info | White House Lies: CFC in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 66463 Incept: 2007-06-26 
Royal Flush! 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1561-W....
---------- I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife? I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me 2009-10-30 15:48:45
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Knobcreek Posts: 928 Incept: 2009-02-06 
Near TN & VA, but not SC
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Seriously, this type of **** is a sign of desperation, to me. The epic bull**** about jobs and now this crap. If the even the citizenry start to call his bluff on the bull**** things are going to get bad very fast.
2009-10-30 15:52:24
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Blackswan Posts: 3361 Incept: 2007-11-06
Execution Pit Online
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The cash for clunkers sale spike proved once again how stupid most of the public is with finances and money. I guess the White House figures they can lie to the same idiots telling them they got super deals thanks to your wonderful government. I will volunteer to shove used dog food down Gibbs fat face. ---------- The market can crash further then you can remain short. Trade the moon cycle not the tape you want. Last modified:
2009-10-30 15:55:09 by blackswan
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Widgeon Posts: 5671 Incept: 2007-08-30
OK
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It wasn't a clunker deal but this happened to me. Last December I went to look at wood stoves. I liked a model that was priced at $1995. OK ... had to think about it. Went back in the second week of January to make the order ... now it was priced at $2149. OK Fine. Placed the order AND PAID. Six weeks later I went to pick it up ... now it was priced at $4095. WTF HAPPENED? Well, just 3 weeks ago I learned that wood stoves "qualify" for a $1500 Tax Credit as part of Stimusaurus II that PBO NIC passed in March. Obviously, the Dealers just tacked on this Tax Credit to the retail price of the stove. 2009-10-30 15:54:46
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1617 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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YOU MEAN JOE WILSON WAS RIGHT?
---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009  2009-10-30 15:56:21
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1617 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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Quote:Second, this "program" destroyed the low end resale market. It literally took all those cars and crushed them! If you were in the market for such a clunker as the only car you could afford they all disappeared for the duration of that program. This did severe damage to sections of the used-car market and the consumers dependent on it. Case in point. My uncle has 2 twin 18 year old boys. Both were told that if they each saved $1,000 over the summer, he would kick in the rest to buy cars for Christmas, up to $3,000 each. Well, he can't find good safe cars in his area. ---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009 2009-10-30 16:01:03
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Wawawa Posts: 85 Incept: 2009-03-18 San Diego, CA
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You guys have not realized that we are living in an Orwellian society. ---------- RAT RACE IS OVER, RATS WON :) 2009-10-30 16:24:19
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Peterpaul Posts: 209 Incept: 2008-03-21
Atlanta, GA
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Let me add in my anecdote regarding the cash for clunker's side effect of hoovering enough 2nd hand cars out of the market to create a vacuum in which the price exploded. In August I got down and dirty into looking for a used car in the 70K mile range to buy to replace my 1999 Nissan Quest (at 125K miles it was put up or shut up time-spend money and drive it into the ground or sell it for a couple of grand to apply toward another vehicle). There was literally nothing worth buying in the 5k range...and cars that used to go for 3-4K suddenly wanted 5k or more... Insanity. The more these parlays of favored sons in the guise of economic reform for the peasants go on...the more certain I am that this can only end with fire and sword. ---------- "True, governments can reduce the rate of interest in the short run. They can issue additional paper money. They can open the way to credit expansion by the banks. They can thus create an artificial boom and the appearance of prosperity. But such a boom is bound to collapse soon or late and to bring about a depression. 2009-10-30 16:40:16
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Uncleoxidant Posts: 1575 Incept: 2007-07-10 Stumptown
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So by this logic, now that C4C is over car prices are going to go up? WTF? Where did these people go to economics school? OK, I just couldn't believe that the Whitehouse would be that stupid, so I had to go dig into this a bit more. This is what it says on the Whitehouse blog: Quote:This analysis ignores not only the price impacts that a program like Cash for Clunkers has on the rest of the vehicle market, but the reports from across the country that people were drawn into dealerships by the Cash for Clunkers program and ended up buying cars even though their old car was not eligible for the program. from: http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2009/10/2.... And this is what it says in the CNN article: Quote:
So the Whitehouse says that there was some price impact (but not necessarily lower) whereas the CNN article claims the Whitehouse was saying that C4C lowered car prices. But the whitehouse blog only says that: Quote:ignores not only the price impacts that a program like Cash for Clunkers has on the rest of the vehicle market Could it be that the Whitehouse actually wanted C4C to put a floor under car prices as was their hope for the first time homebuyer credit? Oh, and this part: Quote:
Basically just says that there's a sucker born every minute... why would you be drawn to a car dealer (a place that most of us avoid like the plague) if your current car wasn't eligible? If that did happen in significant numbers then it shows there are a lot of very gullible people out there. ---------- Debt is slavery Last modified:
2009-10-30 17:33:52 by uncleoxidant
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Knobcreek Posts: 928 Incept: 2009-02-06
Near TN & VA, but not SC
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Wawawa: this guy certainly does. If not for TF, I'd think myself the only INsane / deluded person on the planet.
2009-10-30 17:25:48
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Jakesky Posts: 5 Incept: 2009-09-04
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Barry O! Jake Sky 2009-10-30 17:26:29
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Permabear Posts: 25 Incept: 2009-10-05 
Columbus, OH
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The couple of anecdotes here about the effect of used cars on the market for clunkers confirms what should have been the predictable effect. Wanting to know if there were any analysis beyond anecdotes, I did a quick search. Here is one of the first sites to come up: http://news.preownedcar.com/2009/08/24/e.... The author clearly wants to paint the program as having benefited his business (afterall, the site is for selling pre-owned cars). Yet finally, as an afterword, he gets to this gem: Quote:We think the pressure on used car prices will be upward. Compared to the rock bottom (give away to get out of auto loan) prices a few months ago, we expect the prices on used vehicles to go up by about 35%. I don't know what "rock bottom" means (had prices dipped 10%?). But it seems a safe assumption that his number is based upon all used cars, including those that would not have qualified for the clunkers program. By extension, the price for clunkers is likely to have shot through the roof. Earlier in the article, the author bragged about the high-credit worthiness of buyers participating in the program. Good for them and good for the auto makers. Very bad for the people with less means whose only choice might have been to purchase a clunker that has now been reduced to a chunk of metal. I'm sure that this parallel has been drawn already though I haven't seen it. Doesn't Cash-for-Clunkers seem to be the current Depression's equivalent of FDR destroying produce and killing livestock to prop up prices for farmers? 2009-10-30 17:28:40
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Dmm219 Posts: 76 Incept: 2009-08-14
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Yea...the white house probably lost more credibility, in this one day, than any other day in its short history. First the stupid jobs claim. Second, trying to claim CFC was anything good for anyone other than dealers or banks.
2009-10-30 17:32:55
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Knobcreek Posts: 928 Incept: 2009-02-06
Near TN & VA, but not SC
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Until the sheep stop simply braying louder when stuck from behind, and actually start kicking with their rear hooves, this **** won't stop.
2009-10-30 17:36:01
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Lowbeyond Posts: 6290 Incept: 2008-02-11
CO
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Another example of Big Lie politics, Chicago Style. Double plus good. 2009-10-30 18:09:15
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Fletchjr Posts: 776 Incept: 2007-07-26
Minnesota
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CFC the old ticker for Countrywide I thought it was going to be about them. 2009-10-30 18:14:28
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Throxxofvron Posts: 2244 Incept: 2009-02-17
The Land of Bilk & Money
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It wasn't until I explained to a Friend the C4C induced Sticker Pricing Hikes and the fact that Cheap Used Cars that would have been reasonably affordable for a His' Own Son and Other such Persons of limited purchasing power being destroyed needlessly that the idea sunk in the C4C was a Bailout/Scam for .gov Motors, Banks and for jiggering Sales figures to ramp .gov stats. This was one of the First real .gov Fact Eye Openers I'd gotten across to Him relatively easily. He is listening more intently recently. I've been trying to wake His Son up. He wanted an iPod last spring and I told Him to watch Apple's Stock Price and tell Me what happened. Seeing the price change from May through Sept. made Him think. I also directed Him to His 'News' story for class a few weeks ago: Glenn Beck's breaking story about ACORN fronting Cash for Prostitutes and Human Trafficking in Minors. I made sure He knew that ACORN runs Schools in NY so that the relevance of the controversy was evident. Can't wait to hear how His Teacher dealt with that in the Classroom. His Father was so shocked at that One when I brought it up to Him that He let Me encourage His Son to bring the Story up in Class to meet His requirement for News gathering. Hopefully, I get the update on how the ACORN News flash went over in the Classroom this evening; -I'm catching up with Folks at the local Haunted House tonight. This should be good. Other C4C ancedotal: My Auto Mechanic was simply appalled at the crushing of all those functioning Vehicles and valuable resale parts. He definitively held a Negative view of the Program goals and repercussions. There is NO Part of the Administration's plan of action thus far that has any real net positive impact on the Citizenry as it is all based on Borrowed Money on the Taxpayer's Sovereign Credit and inflating prices/gouging the Consumer. ---------- DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell Last modified:
2009-10-30 18:50:02 by throxxofvron
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Psgirl Posts: 2253 Incept: 2009-02-18
Online
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Quote:but the reports from across the country that people were drawn into dealerships by the Cash for Clunkers program and ended up buying cars even though their old car was not eligible for the program. They "saved" car sales just like they "saved" jobs. ROTFLMAO!!!!! 2009-10-30 18:38:29
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Jimmyk Posts: 10 Incept: 2009-09-28
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Yes, it was a stupid program, and the destruction of the old cars was particularly ludicrous. But I can't see getting worked up over the fact that the dealers were jacking up prices. That's econ 101: You subsidize something, the seller and the buyer are going to share the benefit. That's especially the case when the subsidy is launched on short notice, so there's not much opportunity for the manufacturers to crank up production.
2009-10-30 18:50:03
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Lowbeyond Posts: 6290 Incept: 2008-02-11
CO
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Of course the prices increased. The point is is that the Obama administration is blatantly lying about it. They are saying the exact opposite from the reality. Hell weathermen have to be correct at least sometimes. Only in government can you be wrong 100% of the time, and still force people to give you money to fix problems you just created by your own incompetence and hubris. 2009-10-30 19:01:25
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Ribbit Posts: 841 Incept: 2007-09-10 Wales, UK
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"That's especially the case when the subsidy is launched on short notice, so there's not much opportunity for the manufacturers to crank up production. " Which is another point, of course. If it hadn't been for C4C, how much of a discount would all those cars shoved into storage for months and months and months at docks, etc., have had to have been marked down for? I tell you this, anything sat in salt air for more than a few months, I'd want at least 75% off it. ---------- “There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.” John Adams, President of the United States. 2009-10-30 19:05:25
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Docj Posts: 8 Incept: 2009-09-10 Canton, MA
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Edmunds is obviously raaaaaaaacist. Government - Chicago Deep-Dish style. Thanks a ton 52%. 2009-10-30 19:50:21
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Critter Posts: 143 Incept: 2008-01-26 iowa
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NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND....IF CAR PRICES WERE NOT LOWERED DID THE DEALERSHIP STILL RECIEVE A REBATE CHECK FROM THE GOV.?
2009-10-30 21:10:14
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Digalert Posts: 33 Incept: 2009-09-19
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This administration is looking like a caged animal, where the gawkers poke at the cage to rustle a response and of course the WH lashes back. oooh which causees the gawkers to taunt more.
2009-10-30 21:11:59
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Green222 Posts: 248 Incept: 2008-02-15
Bunker Online
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At least it took a 1/2 million Obama for President stickers off the road:)
2009-10-30 21:18:56
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