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| User Info | What SCHEME Is AIG? in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/870-Wh....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-16 20:24:52
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Captbill Posts: 485 Incept: 2008-07-22 
Arizona's West Coast
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Rush said the same thing this morning...the bonus issue is a ruse to keep the MSM off the track of the bigger news-as you said--US tax money to foreign banks.
2009-03-16 20:36:13
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Bud Posts: 33 Incept: 2009-01-07
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It's all a boondoggle. What did you think would happen when we gave them money? The only solution is to not give them any money. BTW I find these arguments made by the big banks and other financial institutions quite interesting. "You must save us and give us money or you will all be badly hurt." Explain how that is different from an act of terrorism. The proper response is "we do not negotiate with terrorists."
2009-03-16 20:47:04
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Yep. I've been all over this since it started leaking out but that AIG has documented it makes it a REAL smoking gun. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-16 20:47:15
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Waverider Posts: 2785 Incept: 2007-12-23 Chicago
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I think we need our own version of dictator who can go to France and get that 4.1 billion from Societe Generale and 2.6 billions from Deutsche Bank and rein in golddman and JP morgan and the like . Why would AIG publish this report ? I am sure they are aware of the public relation nightmare. Were they forced to do so ? And why would they pay bonuses at this time ? Is it some sort of anger redirect tactic ? Last modified:
2009-03-16 21:19:19 by waverider
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Deejunk Posts: 578 Incept: 2008-10-11 Now DC - Solar Power.
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There may be yet another shoe... ---------- http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2451556/The_.... - I'm seriously ready for inflation, deflation & TOTAL collapse of the US & Global economic & market systems.. I'm the sexy blonde not in this vid but my x is the lead chichen-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFIXsrjk....
2009-03-16 20:53:38
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Baldy Posts: 6555 Incept: 2008-05-16 
Pittsburgh
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I hope this is just a ruse to get us to ignore the counterparties. One other thing, is the money that MAY be needed for the next bailout, and not just for AIG. They cannot control themselves. They.Must.BailOut. It is a sickness.
---------- FY2011 Budget - Hist'l Tables (PDF 2.0 MB) http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/hist.pdf 1996-2011 budgets: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html
2009-03-16 20:57:59
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Gs_hedge Posts: 819 Incept: 2008-02-09
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Just a typo alert: 'Citadel'
2009-03-16 20:58:51
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Perfectstorm Posts: 188 Incept: 2008-02-25
florida
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Somebody help me here...what are we really protecting besides the swap bet winners? Are the individual annuities and policies pre-purchased with cash wiped out too or are they fenced by insurance regulation? It would be a sad day after a quarter trillion of pigmen swap payments to zero out structured settlement holders and the like who bought their policies with cash.
2009-03-16 21:06:21
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Icanhasbailout Posts: 2170 Incept: 2009-03-10
Imaginationland
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Here's a good place to start putting an end to this nonsense: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd.... ---------- I can has TARP? http://icanhastarp.com
2009-03-16 21:32:27
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Deejunk Posts: 578 Incept: 2008-10-11 Now DC - Solar Power.
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Karl, The AIG systemic risk pdf says "run on The Bank"... WTF!!!! I cannot find an expletive strong enough for this ****! If the government wants to save the US insurance "oxygen", why the hell doesn't the government split off AIG into one part to administer the "real" insurance business and fund the "real" claims using the service fees to pay off the amounts of claims made by the government? Continue business as usually... this would appear to be much cheaper. The second part could be left to flounder and collapse with a lot less systemic risk to the US. Debts owed to foreign regulators could be eliminated by related foreign take-over and possibly foreign AIG business nationalization. Pensions and whole life policies also go here because they were NEVER guaranteed in full. I refuse to personally (through taxes) guarantee whole life policies and other people's ****ing retirement when my retirement was simply money every month in my local bank at low but safe interest!!! Why should I, the taxpayer, pay for my neighbor's failed insurance company when I self-insured my own real estate and self-insured my own health straight cash to the doctor and into healthy diet and exercise etc - DAMMNN IT! ---------- http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2451556/The_.... - I'm seriously ready for inflation, deflation & TOTAL collapse of the US & Global economic & market systems.. I'm the sexy blonde not in this vid but my x is the lead chichen-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFIXsrjk....
2009-03-16 22:08:49
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Berkleyreindeer Posts: 560 Incept: 2008-07-22 Minneapolis , MN
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if anyone is curious about the timing of the release of the counterparties, how come AIG told treasury on friday it was going to make the payments...on friday. methinks they knew it was coming since they've had plenty of time to interpret those contracts as legally binding and regrettable. Let them regret being placed with Bubba. take that ****ers! squeal like a pig!!!!! ---------- It'll get worse. Just wait.
2009-03-16 22:19:16
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Jellybean Posts: 246 Incept: 2008-05-07
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At the time AIG was nationalized, a number of stories in the press discussed what impact nationalization would have on Europe. I remember reading a story how AIG London had written credit default contracts on European debt in lieu of capital reserves. What I mean is that the banking authority in Europe allowed their banks to forgo reserve requirements on loans if they had "insurance". So unless something has changed, the only reserves those banks have in the event of default on this debt are the monies they get from cds contracts. And European banks if I remember correctly were leveraged 50:1 on average. My guess is that we will continue to pay on those contracts because to do otherwise would imperil the banks who purchased this "insurance". It is all so ridiculous.
---------- The more you look to government, the more you will suffer tyranny.
2009-03-16 22:34:27
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Berkleyreindeer Posts: 560 Incept: 2008-07-22 Minneapolis , MN
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jellybean: I hate the word nationalization. it conjures up some french socialist attempt to control the economy. what we have with AIG is 79.9% in NONVOTING ****. we didn't nationalize anything. we gave them money in exchange for something to waive at the rednecks in Idaho and wall street. we don't even have someone in the CEO's chair who discloses material information before it triggers. nationalized my ass. ---------- It'll get worse. Just wait.
2009-03-16 22:44:24
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Oldman47 Posts: 23 Incept: 2008-10-19
Wisconsin
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it's time all this CDS **** gets unwound. The PTB have known for over a year about this **** and have done absolutely nothing about it. The ****ers are absolutely clueless. It's no longer guns and butter, just guns. There is a saying: "some people are alive only because it's against the law to kill them". Well maybe it's time to break the law. ---------- Throw the bums out. All 535 of them.
2009-03-16 22:50:51
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Cjworkman Posts: 5615 Incept: 2007-08-22
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AIG is a government approved tax payer money laundering scheme to avoid public backlash against funneling money into financial institutions. That's what scheme it is. Now they have a problem though. American citizens know enough about whats going on that if 1 more dollar goes to AIG... they will start screaming and every dollar will make everyone in congress look like an *******. (which they are) So now not only is the lifeline into large financial institutions basically cut off, which means the rest of the CDS on the books that were bought from AIG are effectively worth a big fat ZERO. But... it also means that if it is ever proven that the government was knowingly funneling tax payer money through AIG into financial institutions INCLUDING foreign institutions... well then.... they have real issues.... legal issues.... major huge issues. ---------- Ben is going to create an equity bubble from excess liquidity that tops at 1200... and bottoms at 300. A bubble inside of bearish economic conditions, so that it never reaches new market highs and crashes far below the lows. - me Last modified:
2009-03-16 23:02:33 by cjworkman
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Hihoherewego Posts: 595 Incept: 2009-02-25
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Remember this exchange from Vt. Senator Bernie Sanders to Little Ben Bernanke? **************************************************************************** When Sanders pressed on whether Bernanke would name the firms that borrowed from the Fed, the central bank chairman replied, "No," and started to say that doing so risked stigmatizing banks and discouraging them from borrowing from the central bank. "Isn't that too bad," Sanders interrupted, cutting him off. "They took the money but they don't want to be public about the fact that they received it." http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?i.... **************************************************************************** Since it now appears that foreign banks have also greatly benefited from the lowly U.S. taxpayer's unlimited largesse I would imagine Pelosi will soon be taking another Euro field trip primero to Italy to ferret out the greedy untoward rascals and of course to pay respects to the familia. All this international intrigue is almost becoming too much were it not already for the Godfatheresque domestic intrigue unfolding. Hiho.... Last modified:
2009-03-17 03:46:05 by hihoherewego
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Jellybean Posts: 246 Incept: 2008-05-07
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Berkley...in a way I agree with your comment as no formal status other than shareholder is given...but, when a private company 1. cannot pay it's debts, 2. cannot be placed into bankruptcy due to systemic risk, and 3. depends on .gov for infusions of capital, that dependency in my mind whether stated or not puts that company under the control of .gov otherwise how else would it function. CJ...a money laudering scheme seems right but I wonder if existing credit default swaps would go to zero...they're contracts and probably enforceable unless for some legal reason they can be voided. The fact that taxpayer money goes to foreign banks may not be material. Wait until Americans taxpayers realize they are paying European banks for defaults in Eastern Europe, unreal. ---------- The more you look to government, the more you will suffer tyranny. Last modified:
2009-03-17 00:02:17 by jellybean
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Lastchance Posts: 1132 Incept: 2008-11-19 Las Vegas
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Another excellent Ticker. Think about last weeks speeches. Wasn't a CFR logo behind one of the speakers? Wasn't a BR logo behind Obama when he spoke? Think about it. Forget Congress. This is a worldwide phenomenon. If you don't know what CFR stands for or what BR stands for or what JCOS stands for, well, it's never to late to learn. Genesis, you have done better than 90% of what folks consider to be the national media on being on point. Now let's get to AIG for a moment. Let's just say AIG has/had signed contracts with certain employees. Regardless of 2008 profit or loss, said employess were ENTITLED to monies per contract law. This is speculation on my part re: who signed what. Stay with me here. It seems to me that regardless of who owns the shares or public opinion is, contracts should be honored. Isn't that the basis for whatever many of us trade in the various markets? I am not saying I like the AIG bonuses. But...when contract law starts to be selectively suspended, I think we are trouble. If I am way wrong, someone please help educate me. ---------- "We don't quit. I don't quit" President Obama 1/27/10 Man, I would to have him in one of our poker games.
2009-03-17 00:04:02
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Cjworkman Posts: 5615 Incept: 2007-08-22
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Jelly, they'll be worthless if you bought them from AIG.. because the money going through AIG into CDS that were being called by domestic and foriegn investment and commercial banks came from the government. now people are ****ed off about these bonuses... and soon will figure out that tax payer money was going to foreign institutions and then will figure out why. therefore... not one more government dollar will flow through AIG for CDS payments because every dollar from now on makes congress look like a bunch of *******s. thus... if AIG still owes you money on CDS you bought.. might as well mark it a zero. ---------- Ben is going to create an equity bubble from excess liquidity that tops at 1200... and bottoms at 300. A bubble inside of bearish economic conditions, so that it never reaches new market highs and crashes far below the lows. - me
2009-03-17 00:04:10
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Quote:Now let's get to AIG for a moment. Let's just say AIG has/had signed contracts with certain employees. Regardless of 2008 profit or loss, said employess were ENTITLED to monies per contract law. This is speculation on my part re: who signed what. Not if those contracts were for BONUSES. A BONUS is based on PERFORMANCE. If the alleged gains you brought in the company turn out to be fraudulent, you're owed ZERO. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-17 00:17:10
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Deejunk Posts: 578 Incept: 2008-10-11 Now DC - Solar Power.
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Bonus = A real prickly situation.
---------- http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2451556/The_.... - I'm seriously ready for inflation, deflation & TOTAL collapse of the US & Global economic & market systems.. I'm the sexy blonde not in this vid but my x is the lead chichen-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFIXsrjk....
2009-03-17 01:00:31
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Aliveh Posts: 2610 Incept: 2008-01-18
Los Angeles
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junk - nice avatar. prickly indeed. The account I heard said that they were RETENTION bonuses & were pretty standard practice on wall street, i.e., not based on performance but on the promise not to hop ship to another employer. Now at this point it is all speculation, but if these bonuses were based on contracts that were tightly written, then it seems to me that denial or clawback of bonuses would have to be based on a fraudulent conveyance argument. The fraudulent conveyance argument may have some teeth to it considering the bonuses based on contracts written in late Q1 '08 were paid to the people (in structured products & derivatives) who would have been most likely to be aware of all the problems in the books there.
2009-03-17 01:10:49
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Waverider Posts: 2785 Incept: 2007-12-23 Chicago
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So the Bezzles outsmarting every one, I would say we could begin the downtrend to our target 4000 on the DOW or lower and stay there for a decade ?
2009-03-17 01:23:14
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Robert17 Posts: 70 Incept: 2009-03-15 Judsonia, Arkansas
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Cuomo is a clown, just like Spitzer. Of course the money went to counterparty banks all over the world...what did people expect? The answer was no bailout to begin with.
2009-03-17 01:53:34
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