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Genesis Posts: 66463 Incept: 2007-06-26 
Royal Flush! 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1190-W....
---------- I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife? I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me 2009-07-08 10:37:46
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Keewaydin Posts: 1494 Incept: 2007-08-22 
Just a fleshwound!
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Unfrickinbelievable. I've got no pity for anyone who buys that re-branded trash.
2009-07-08 10:45:55
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Fred_flintstone Posts: 3825 Incept: 2008-04-15
Online
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Didn't Singapore recently ban certain banks from issuing MBS? Like 10 or 12 of them. Ought to do that here. Will look for a link, saw it on Bloomberg TV late last night.
2009-07-08 10:47:52
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Etz3l Posts: 8658 Incept: 2007-06-26
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Pension fund manager: I'll buy it! wink,wink.
---------- I could slit my wrists and people would cheer - L. Blankfein.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8jm61vk2.... 2009-07-08 10:49:11
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Fred_flintstone Posts: 3825 Incept: 2008-04-15
Online
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Yeah OK here it is: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aacae6c0-6b56-.... Singapore in 'mis-selling' ban By John Burton in Singapore Published: July 8 2009 03:00 | Last updated: July 8 2009 03:00 Singapore has banned 10 local and foreign banks and financial institutions from selling structured notes to retail investors for up to two years. The move follows an uproar over the "mis-selling" of similar products that were rendered worthless by the collapse of Lehman Brothers. The tough action by the Monetary Authority of Singapore, the city-state's central bank, followed an investigation that concluded that the financial institutions failed to follow guidelines on the sale of structured products, including training financial advisers in the marketing of the notes. The 10 institutions hit by the ban, which took effect from July 1, include three banks, DBS, ABN Amro and Maybank. Six regional brokerages - CIMB-GK Securities, DMG and Partners, Kim Eng Securities, OCBC Securities, Phillip Securities and UOB Kay Hian - have also been banned, as has finance company Hong Leong Finance. Angry investors who bought what were known as Lehman "mini-bonds" last year claimed they were misled about the financial safety of the products, which were a form of credit default swap linked to several foreign financial institutions, including Lehman. Nearly 10,000 people in Singapore bought the Lehman-linked notes, but saw their investments wiped out after the collapse of the US investment bank last September. Similar products were sold in Hong Kong, Indonesia and Taiwan, but Singapore's action is the strongest to date. The MAS said that the ratings for some of the Lehman-linked products "were inconsistent with risk warnings stated in the prospectus and pricing statements". Internal controls to ensure compliance with sales procedures were not followed in some cases, it said. About 4,000 customers have already been compensated by the financial institutions for their losses, MAS said. Last month, the government said the investors had received about S$105m (US$72m), with Hong Leong paying S$58bn. ABN Amro, DBS, Maybank, DMG and UOB Kay Hian received the lightest ban of six months, while Hong Leong received the heaviest at two years. The rest received a one-year ban. The bans, however, could be extended if MAS is not satisfied that adequate measures to improve controls have been adapted. Additional reporting by Justine Lau in Hong Kong 2009-07-08 10:51:08
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1617 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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When I saw this on Bloomberg here, I knew a ticker was coming. Un-believe-able!!!!!!  ---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009  2009-07-08 10:52:13
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Knobcreek Posts: 928 Incept: 2009-02-06
Near TN & VA, but not SC
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Nothing has changed and nothing in going to change until the "system" in completely and utterly nuked.
2009-07-08 10:52:59
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Binney Posts: 2123 Incept: 2008-08-27 
Riverhead, NY
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forgive my naïveté... won't this crap get bought up by pension funds and the like that are "managed" by the big guys and they will justify buying this crap because some sleazy ratings company will stamp a triple A on it? Isn't this really fraud??? This is unconscionable...the same poor slobs are gonna get screwed again and again! ---------- Holy crap!!!! I'm a left leaning authoritarian! Last modified:
2009-07-08 10:59:25 by binney
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Fred_flintstone Posts: 3825 Incept: 2008-04-15
Online
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I think places lile S&P Moody etc. are cracking down on this, witness recent massive downgrades on all sorts of RMBS & CMBS. It's be funny if they couldn't find anyone to rate them. You know, like the ratings agencies doing their jobs BEFORE people bought them?
2009-07-08 10:59:58
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Jal Posts: 38 Incept: 2009-03-25
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"... because the fees have to come out of the total income stream..." Because of the complexity, I have explained the "fees" as ... Imagine selling/passing a 5 lbs bag of sugar for $5.00. However, you remove a spoonfull from the bag as a fee before selling/passing it on. Eventually, the bag is going to be empty but still selling for $5.00. The game can continue until someone checks into the bag and discover that there is no sugar or less than 5 lb of sugar in the bag.( market correction then occurs) jal 2009-07-08 11:02:08
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Luke428 Posts: 272 Incept: 2009-02-10
Boston
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If you read FIASCO it talks about Morgan Stanley and how they have people specifically assigned to 'how do we get something AAA rated so we can sell it'. It is not even about trying to earn returns for customers, its more about how can we allow pension funds etc. to invest into really really risky things without it being illegal. Then the question at the very top is, how much commission can we collect from these transactions? Seriously, GS, MS and the others exist to bilk people out of their money. 2009-07-08 11:03:33
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Monkeybutt Posts: 27 Incept: 2009-04-09
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Why the **** won't someone STOP this **** from going forward? It's to the point now where our knowing about it and not stopping it makes us enablers 2009-07-08 11:08:27
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Ghostcrab Posts: 86 Incept: 2009-04-17 Dallas/FtWorth Banned
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Don't forget the friendly neighborhood vampire squid mention at the bottom of the Bloomberg article... New York-based Goldman Sachs plans to sell $216.9 million of repackaged commercial mortgage debt, according to people familiar with the sale who declined to be identified because terms aren’t public. The re-REMIC is being carved out of four bonds sold in 2006, said the people. Michael DuVally, a Goldman Sachs spokesman, said he couldn’t comment. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2.... ---------- "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance." - James Madison Last modified:
2009-07-08 11:16:55 by ghostcrab
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Xennady Posts: 2419 Incept: 2008-03-18
Too damn near Detroit
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I have a really hard time believing anyone on this planet could be so stupid as to fall for this twice.
2009-07-08 11:22:13
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Infidel Posts: 2605 Incept: 2007-08-27
orlando, fl
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Just curious, when as you say, "they waved their arms around" did they happen to mention in the article what words were said? Like Sim Sim Salabim, Abra Kadabra. I have a huge sack of Tuna and Jack entrails and bones I would like to rollover into some cold cash.
2009-07-08 11:26:12
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Aja Posts: 1956 Incept: 2008-03-19
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Surely the SEC wont let this happen?
2009-07-08 11:32:40
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Statusquojoe Posts: 2048 Incept: 2008-11-20
Land of the fees Home of the slaves.
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The only difference between Great Depression I and GDII is that now the spin doctors are slicker and have a much larger media base for their spin. They are turning investment vehicles into a suckers tax. If I had a lot of capital, I know some of you do I would be looking at buying a hardware store, farm or junkyard in the heartland, folks will need gardening tools and re-learn the value of hard, honest work the hard way. ---------- "The value of a man's opinion, is the price he has paid to have it." Author unknown. 2009-07-08 11:47:30
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Pika-steph Posts: 37242 Incept: 2007-09-11
^Why I keep^ fighting; so he is not fighting for nothing.
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Just shoot me now.
---------- Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org  "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." 2009-07-08 11:49:56
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Xennady Posts: 2419 Incept: 2008-03-18
Too damn near Detroit
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Status, That's why things will be worse this time. 2009-07-08 12:37:54
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Fred_flintstone Posts: 3825 Incept: 2008-04-15
Online
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Financials seem to be responding well to this idea today.
2009-07-08 12:38:56
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Oldman47 Posts: 20 Incept: 2008-10-19
Wisconsin
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Gotta start suing the f'n rating companies.
---------- Revolutions are sometimes necessary. 2009-07-08 12:46:40
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Phantomace Posts: 1525 Incept: 2009-03-16
Las Vegas, NV, and your screen
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Fred: Is that sarcasm? (I would assume so.) Any idea what the sudden down on all 3 indices at about 11 AM was from? ---------- "That was a little trick I call math. Oops, now I'm not emotionally invested..." - Dilbert The only good thing I have to say about Barney Frank is at least he's not breeding... 2009-07-08 12:49:26
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Fred_flintstone Posts: 3825 Incept: 2008-04-15
Online
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Phantom, that would be a yes.
2009-07-08 12:52:09
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Blankfiend Posts: 1447 Incept: 2009-02-07
MA
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[sarcasm] These people at Morgan are just plain miracle workers!!! [/sarcasm] What might help avoid this is to have the rating agency fees come from prospective buyers and not the sellers. You know - the way it used to be BEFORE the ratings agencies started becoming such profit-making publicly traded enterprises with .gov monopolies. ---------- Sun Tzu: “Strike when victory is assured”. The events for which this period of American history will be most remembered have yet to occur. 2009-07-08 15:10:29
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Xqqme Posts: 74 Incept: 2009-01-09
Ohio
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Watch money! “Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard—the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money—the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law—men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims—then money becomes its creators’ avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they’ve passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter. “Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion—when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing—when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors—when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you—when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice—you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot. - Ayn Rand 2009-07-08 15:12:30
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