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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1034-W....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-13 08:48:11
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Tesla Posts: 8181 Incept: 2008-04-03 
Delaware
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Someone wants to kill off the USA as fast as possible...
---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-05-13 08:52:25
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Stemmit Posts: 2035 Incept: 2007-09-07 
NYS
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Can I short the US? is: Can I short myself?
---------- The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will execute great v Last modified:
2009-05-13 08:56:53 by stemmit
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Karlmarxghost Posts: 2641 Incept: 2009-01-26
Stealing Your Property
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The part on the TARP funds being directed to an Airport to be named after Murtha pretty much sums up the problems with our country. I see no hope and I see no change. I truly believe Ron Paul was our last hope and he was shunned like a fat chick on prom night but that is just my opinion. Buy fuel efficient cars, get your own power, water, & food source because we are heading to third world country status.... Its time to start thinking about yourselves and your family.
---------- My views are my view and mine alone. Karl or ticker forum does not endorse or necessarily agree with my views. DO not trade on my views or take them personally. Last modified:
2009-05-13 08:59:26 by tjeffersonsghost
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Koaj Posts: 957 Incept: 2009-02-03
NJ
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yes you can short the United States through TBT not sure of any other way ---------------------------------------- tesla - we did it to ourselves...it's not anyone else's doing
2009-05-13 09:02:14
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Gen, excellent points and an excellent ticker. I was merely looking at this from the perspective of the long-feared bond market dislocation that it would almost certainly advance. However, and I should have considered, the danger of allowing the .gov to control the funding mechanism of the states and municipalities. Because - "he who has the gold, makes the rules." And the last thing that anybody with half a brain would want would be the .gov to exercise political control of the states and the municipalities. ---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-05-13 09:02:53
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Jstanley01 Posts: 2574 Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas Online
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I've been wondering how the Federales would respond to the nascent moves of the states toward asserting their 10th Amendment rights. This one's a doozy. This is how Washington has stuck its bureaucratic nose in everything from welfare to healthcare to housing to education to workplace rules to... You name it. He who pays the bills calls the shots. Which is why The Guv here has already started saying "no thanks" to Yankee dollars. Huzza, huzza. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/.... ---------- ...so in short, my fellow Texans, we must secede. "For the children..." --Me
2009-05-13 09:07:01
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Karl, by the way, do you still hold to your thesis, with regard to the rest of the word, that we're effed, but they're effed worse, in light of this? Thanks in advance. ---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-05-13 09:09:31
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Karlmarxghost Posts: 2641 Incept: 2009-01-26
Stealing Your Property
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Reply to Stone Why would they be screwed worse? They actually have money and reserves. We are the biggest debtor nation. Back in the day we used to produce things and export them and we used to be a creditor nation. Now we just consume and borrow. There has to be a change in how we do business and I dont see it happening. If it wasnt for all these countries who actually have money buying our debt we would of been screwed long ago... Edit to add: We do have a military though.... ---------- My views are my view and mine alone. Karl or ticker forum does not endorse or necessarily agree with my views. DO not trade on my views or take them personally. Last modified:
2009-05-13 09:18:42 by tjeffersonsghost
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1891 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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Quote:Karl, by the way, do you still hold to your thesis, with regard to the rest of the word, that we're effed, but they're effed worse, in light of this? Not speaking for Karl, but that is my view. If it were not so the USD would have collapsed along time ago. ---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. Why is Franklin Raines a free man? "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009 
2009-05-13 09:16:19
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1891 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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TJG - Have you seen any of the European banks and the **** they are holding? The would love to be in the position of the large US banks right about now. Eastern Europe is killing them. When they start defaulting, and they will the currency is going to experience a flight to quality like you saw in the late 1920's to 1930's. The US dollar was king in the depression then.......and probably will be again.
---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. Why is Franklin Raines a free man? "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009
2009-05-13 09:19:36
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Mo Posts: 5502 Incept: 2007-06-26
Florida Online
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The federal government doesn't have any money, nor do the state and local governments, particularly the big blue cities in blue states. The only option for the latter to maintain 'services' for leech****s is to raise taxes, but that will simply accelerate the exodus from blue states by the productive. So for 'fairness' to blue states, the federal government will take control and impose higher taxes on everyone. There will be no escape. ---------- "The World has been cancelled. It doesn't even look like the world. There is one island that is maintained and is said to be owned by the Sheikh and the rest looks like a pile of muck."
2009-05-13 09:20:12
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Escaping_east Posts: 107 Incept: 2009-04-19 Europe
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http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/05/09/c.... How much the US already pays to China. Quote:
Why would anyone hold USD? It seems clear to me that there is a political will to print their way out of this mess. Until now politicians have always taken the cowards way out. Just because the Euro faces problems doesn't mean that the USD is any safe. All it takes for things to blow is a few benefit checks that don't arrive on time. Military prowess will be of no use if the soldiers can't be paid and oil not bought. ---------- The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money Last modified:
2009-05-13 09:25:04 by escaping_east
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Tjeff - much of the world is dependent on their ability to export to us. also, much of the world's debt is currently $ demoninated. No doubt we've got serious, serious systemic problems. However, my question related to whether in light of Japan's proposal for a yen-denominated borrowing, the destruction of order of priority of debtholders and the potential federalization of the state and local governments (not to mention the bond market dislocation) and the possibility that things in this country might wind up WORSE than much of what is currently considered to be the 1st world. ---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-05-13 09:21:33
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Karlmarxghost Posts: 2641 Incept: 2009-01-26
Stealing Your Property
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Curb I wasn't referring to Europe I was referring to places like China, Japan, and the ME. Europe is in the same boat as us if not worse. Europe isn't the world however. The fact is until we start producing things and selling them to countries that actually have money we are NOT going to be king again. Wince when can you just borrow and consume and expect prosperity? It doesn't work for the average joe and it doesn't work for government either.....
---------- My views are my view and mine alone. Karl or ticker forum does not endorse or necessarily agree with my views. DO not trade on my views or take them personally.
2009-05-13 09:23:23
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Karlmarxghost Posts: 2641 Incept: 2009-01-26
Stealing Your Property
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Stone The ideology that the world NEEDS us to consume THEIR products are a farce. What if the other countries wake up one day and instead of using their money to fund our debt they use their money to put back into their own countries so they can consume their own products. Watch the first minute of this video its explained perfect... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJDYAohRU.... ---------- My views are my view and mine alone. Karl or ticker forum does not endorse or necessarily agree with my views. DO not trade on my views or take them personally.
2009-05-13 09:26:55
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Tjeff - I am not disagreeing with you - it's impossible to borrow and consume one's way to prosperity. But the world does depend on us to a large degree. We are the largest economy. China, Japan and the middle East all have significant problems as well. For example, can China can maintain the level of growth it needs to keep things socially calm? I have serious, serious doubts. Even today, growth came in under 8% (I THINK 7.6%). Just an example... EDIT - Sorry have to get to work...will watch it later. ---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this Last modified:
2009-05-13 09:29:51 by stonedog
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Ilikecoffee Posts: 1019 Incept: 2008-04-17
cold , AK
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Gen, So, what is to stop the criminals from coming back again and saying that they won't backstop the muni's at a future date after they get money to move in. That is what makes it even worse. ---------- You can trust the government, ask any American Indian. "When people lose everything and they have nothing left to lose, they lose it" Gerald Celente
2009-05-13 09:36:52
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1lumpsum Posts: 1733 Incept: 2008-02-01
Nashville Online
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I did'nt care for the disclosure on this one.
2009-05-13 09:37:23
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Ilike: Nothing, and that's the problem. There is also nothing prohibiting them from SELECTIVELY withdrawing that support or at least threatening to, thereby destroying that state's funding capability. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-13 09:38:00
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Throxxofvron Posts: 2672 Incept: 2009-02-17
The Land of Bilk & Money
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The States must begin the arduous and contentious process of shrinking their government budgets and outlays; and resist the dangerous temptation to allow .gov backstopping of their bonds or They will lose control of Their fiscal processes entirely. It might also be possible under the discussed scenario for .gov to sell the individual States into debt as a putative measure for defying Federal Mandate by choosing to issue bonds on behalf of the States and then refusing to distribute the funds. This could also develop into a situation where some States ratifying or not ratifying Laws at the behest of .gov could have all sorts of funding or the backstopping for funding with-held as an extortion tactic. It also might be possible that other retaliatory measures such as politically motivated Military base or Prison closings, deployment of National Guard from specific States into other States or Foreign engagements, or other such measures could be taken; in attempts to force States to capitulate to .gov mandates. With the State National Guard deployed outside of home territory the State would be in denuded of the Protection of It's Citizen Forces to some degree... ---------- DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell Last modified:
2009-05-13 09:48:04 by throxxofvron
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Jstanley01 Posts: 2574 Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas Online
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Gen: Trumping the states on their funding, as opposed to just on their spending as they have up till now, is ingeniously devilish.
---------- ...so in short, my fellow Texans, we must secede. "For the children..." --Me Last modified:
2009-05-13 10:14:23 by jstanley01
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Pika-steph Posts: 39200 Incept: 2007-09-11
^Why I keep^ fighting; so he is not fighting for nothing.
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I suggest that all of you get on your State Legislatures to pass 10th Amendment/Sovereignty LAWS - RIGHT THE **** NOW. If you REALLY want to stop this ****, that is how you have to do it. Right now there are 30+ states that have passed concurrent Resolutions to that effect - now you have to get a LAW. There is lots of information about this in the FedUp forum. State legislators listen a LOT more closely to their constituents than Congresstards. If you do NOTHING, you deserve what you get. ---------- Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org  "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
2009-05-13 09:43:08
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Throxxofvron Posts: 2672 Incept: 2009-02-17
The Land of Bilk & Money
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What about the Eminent Domain power of .gov? Can the Federal Government use ED to seize State property and assets to cover the sale of bonds or sell it outright or other such shenanigans? ---------- DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell Last modified:
2009-05-13 09:45:11 by throxxofvron
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Lonestarhog Posts: 64 Incept: 2009-03-06 The Republic of Texas!
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The states need to call a Constitutional Convention and BY VOTE shut down the Federal Government, thereby also abolishing the Federal Reserve. Gun and ammo sales are soaring in many states like Texas, Wyoming, Oklahoma, et al because a national revolution is not possible. It will be done by Americans defending his/her OWN STATE! Hog The Republic of Texas!
2009-05-13 09:45:14
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