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| User Info | Tying It Together: Massive, Pernicious Fraud in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1514-T....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-10-16 10:21:35
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Superdude Posts: 121 Incept: 2009-06-16
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What else is new? Jimminy Xmas....
2009-10-16 10:29:45
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Hogman Posts: 1877 Incept: 2008-02-18 
Derby City, USA
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Quote:such tiresome formalities were postponed. Priceless 
2009-10-16 10:30:10
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Pojo Posts: 34 Incept: 2009-08-05
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this is not a land of laws i've seen the same elitist crap at every job i've ever had those on the inside can do whatever the **** they want, and the lowly peons have to take it it'll never change i'm giving up this fight going to go get drunk
2009-10-16 10:41:15
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Stx_jay Posts: 958 Incept: 2008-04-06 
St Croix, USVI
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If memory serves, a AAA rating was something the rating agencies said couldn't be breached unless there was a nuclear war. If: 1) the courts decide to uphold the law in the cases of a fraudulent/bungled/"no standing" assignment for a mortgage that was securitized; 2) defendants in a foreclosure cases decide to fight en masse (individually or more likely as part of a massive class-action suit) then yeah, we do have a nuclear incident. The math on subprime AAA RMBS has been pretty straightforward: even if you got 40% defaults, you'd likely get 50% recovery which would blowup the subordinated tranches, but leave the AAA unscathed. Getting a zero percent recovery suddenly renders that AAA worthless. And to go a step further, this will absolutely kill the servicers of these RMBS if state courts begin to demand the law be followed to the letter. These servicers typically have to advance P&I in the event of non-payment and get reimbursed only when the mortgagor begins to pay again or the property is liquidated and sold. Ooooops! Boy, wouldn't you just love to be BAC servicing a metric ass-ton of Countrywide paper and bleed out every hole if this thing gets going? That said, it's impossible for me to believe the Fed, Treasury and Barney Frank are going to let some stupid state laws blow apart their favorite mega-zombie banks. ---------- Let's sing along to the old AC/DC song, shall we? Cos I'm / TNX / I'm Dynamite / TNX / And I'll win the fight / TNX / I'm a power-load / TNX / Watch me explode
2009-10-16 10:44:10
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Madashel Posts: 577 Incept: 2007-09-14
West Texas
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I know I have probably said something similar before, but America is already lost and it doesn't even know it yet although some of us realize it's already happened. It's all out there for everyone to see if they look. Thank you for your efforts in putting it all together. If we could only get more people to open their eyes maybe things would change. I'm not holding my breath though. I think it goes further than even our financial corruption. There is corruption in every aspect of government from the president to your local city councilman. I believe there are very few in any of these positions of power who are truly on the peoples' side. The massive distrust in government is not going away anytime soon. We can only prepare for what is coming, if that is even possible. I figure it will be so much worse than even we expect and we will all be shocked by how bad it really can get. I think nothing significant will happen until the gov really oversteps their bounds, for example by passing the "healthcare" bill, which isn't about healthcare, but about control and bypassing the constitution. The corruption will not stop until the people rise up and put a stop to it, by force if necessary. Civil disobedience may be the only option. Unfortunately I really don't see any other way. I know if they start passing laws making me a criminal then I am going to act like a criminal. All bets are off at that point. ---------- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana "It is better to live for something rather than die for nothing." - George S. Patton
2009-10-16 10:48:55
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Reason&rights Posts: 25 Incept: 2009-05-28
S. FL
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It all started and was encouraged from the top. The politicans, regulators and agency directors ALL full and well, understood what they did and are doing and have encouraged and allowed the fraud. They are the top of the organized crime family that is our federal govt. They have and will continue to shake down the individuals who work, play by the rules and care about their families and future. Greenspan was the Carlo Gambino and now we have Paul Bernanke Castellanos and his Capo's are running the show. There are no Eliot Ness' that are going to stop it... the people need to wake up and stand up to this.... everyone has to be Eliot Nesses. ---------- "He that goes a borrowing goes a sorrowing." ..... "No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session." BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
2009-10-16 10:51:37
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Kuhio Posts: 206 Incept: 2008-12-31
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Quote:@Pojo - those on the inside can do whatever the **** they want, and the lowly peons have to take it Au contraire, dear Pojo, history is replete with major turning points where the lowly peons no longer have to "take it": 1776, 1789, 1861, 1917, 1933, 1989, etc. The whole point of maintaining the rule of law is to prevent major upheavals. That is, a system which cannot bend will eventually break. BHO's marketing team simply co-opted the message of change that people desperately wanted to hear. But just because the product isn't delivering its promised results doesn't mean for a moment that the desire isn't alive in the breasts of men. The one certainty everyone can bank on is that change will come. HOW it comes about is a function of many dynamics, some of which are extremely volatile and becoming more so each day.
2009-10-16 10:51:51
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Halfbrite Posts: 555 Incept: 2008-10-13
Arizona via California
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Good ticker KD, thank you. Maybe I'm too cynical? I've given up on the government doing anything truthful or correct - they are owned by the banks. I've given up on the American people acting - those of us who produce and care, tried when the first TARP came up - with 300/1 calls running against the bailouts, our leaders bailed out the crooks anyway - that told me that no matter what we say or do, it doesn't matter. Our actions produced zero, and things have only gotten worse. The American people won't care, or act, until things get really, really bad. What can we do - nothing yet. What will force the government to change? IMO, the only way our rulers do a mea culpa and prosecute the crooks is when violence forces them too. Am I too cynical? Maybe, maybe not. ---------- "The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others" "Go Galt,and Go Now!"
2009-10-16 10:55:16
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Pojo Posts: 34 Incept: 2009-08-05
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i'll be a peon in the "new order" as well
2009-10-16 10:55:58
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Krzelune Posts: 2080 Incept: 2007-10-08
DFW
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a takover of all property in question by the govt, which they probably alrady own the majority of via (fed/(fre,fnm)) and GNMA? i skeerd
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2009-10-16 11:09:04 by krzelune
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Uppity_peasant Posts: 301 Incept: 2009-06-26 Online
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KD wrote: "Yet to date there have been no formal investigations, no indictments, no prosecutions - only bailouts, back-door monetizations and further scams perpetrated by our government in a puerile and outrageous attempt to cover up what certainly appears to be the biggest crime spree ever unleashed upon the American Public and indeed the world." This will only get acted on if it threatens the re-election of those in the US CONgress. Then, they'll vote for something to placate the howling mobs, have the media tell the public what it is they implemented during American Idol and Monday Night Football commercials, and write the legislation later. "The law is in their mouths" - as we've seen repeatedly since the beginning of 2009. Hey, who needs to actually READ legislation you're going to vote for - or even WRITE it before you vote for it, for that matter? ---------- ===== Take your red pill daily @ The Market Ticker, with your host Karl "Morpheus" Denninger
2009-10-16 11:08:27
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Bluebird Posts: 524 Incept: 2008-05-02
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We're living in a Ponzi.
2009-10-16 11:12:18
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Teotwawkinow Posts: 60 Incept: 2009-02-02
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Quote:( We The People must demand that The Governments of this nation ENFORCE EXISTING LAW that has long made this conduct criminal. So I should write my congress person and if that doesn't work I should cal the Governor? How exactly are we suppose to INSIST this government does anything? Unless, of course, you mean at the barrel of a gun?
2009-10-16 11:12:21
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Tesla Posts: 8182 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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Here's what I'm doing. I just faxed a copy of the ticker and a cover letter including a link to the pdf to the attorneys general in both PA and DE since I hold property in both states asking them to investigate whether this type of fraud has occurred in PA or DE. This particular fraud has not occurred on my mortgage, which is why my letter will probably be tossed in the trash since I personally have suffered no harm. If anyone can see this same fraud on their mortgages, they should do the same, with specifics, and include the same info to their local shyster lawyers who might want to get a suit going. ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-10-16 11:20:35
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Amgrace Posts: 1304 Incept: 2008-02-15
New Castle, PA 16101
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I woke up last night with a scary thought. We know that the lobbyists "own" the legislators. But maybe it's worse than just the campaign money. The lobbyists wine and dine our legislators - but maybe they also have dirt on most of them that they could easily use against them. That would INSURE that the only action ever taken by the government would have to be approved by the corporate "owners" and their lobby - at least until we have the balls to revolt.
---------- "In an informal survey at a recent meeting of 150 or so institutions, those admitting to feeling nervous about underexposure to risk outnumbered those feeling too aggressive by a neat 10 to 1! This also suggests how a speculative rally can keep going longer than reasonable investors expect." - Jeremy Grantham 07/2009
2009-10-16 11:24:52
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Glennb6 Posts: 100 Incept: 2009-03-02 florida
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Teotwawkinow good question, especially when .gov chooses to ignore and in opposition to the people (who know which side is up). Other than guns, the only ways would be; National public strike/work stoppage. Tax revolt/withholding. Public disobedience (protest, non-compliance) Mass bank withdrawals, closing accounts, withhold payment of all credit card/mortgage/car loans. (keep money in Sealy escrow acct) Proly a few more creative thing I'm not thinking of too. Key would be MASS public action. Perhaps if most talk radio/blog writers/influential people with a voice ALL TOGETHER called upon people to take an action on a certain week or day, and enough millions of people actually DID, some positive change could be affected. Hit'em in the wallet. IMO tshtf will need to precede such actions to get peoples attention to action. glennb6
2009-10-16 11:27:35
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Digalert Posts: 60 Incept: 2009-09-19
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Every once in a while the local paper has a piece where the local keystones bust a crackhead involved with check forgery, involving hundreds of dollars. I guess the higher the dollar amount of fraud the less of a crime. Oh, and the crackhead usually gets five to ten in the clink.
2009-10-16 11:30:19
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Kwl88 Posts: 304 Incept: 2009-04-16 KC, MO
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Genesis wrote.....This is a nation of LAWS, not of Barons and Kings.... "Off with your head, Genesis you lowly serf" - declares KING BARRY the First! "This is King Barry's nation now - off to the guillotine with the likes of Genesis and his band" - writes just about every member of the MSM!
2009-10-16 11:32:29
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Statusquojoe Posts: 2397 Incept: 2008-11-20
Land of the fees Home of the slaves.
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Tesla, that sounds like a good course of action.
---------- "In short, you are the definition of moral hazard." Senator Bunning to Bernanke
2009-10-16 11:36:31
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Onchaos Posts: 70 Incept: 2008-10-09 Virginia
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And we think "WHAT" exactly is going to compel these crooks to rehabilitate themselves? They, Barry, Congress, Bankers, are for the most part untouchable. They laugh at our feeble cries. Meanwhile the noose of do as we say, not as we do, gets tighter and tighter. ---------- Freedom is chaos - give it to me anyway!
2009-10-16 11:43:18
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Don't jump the shark. Gen writes Quote:A "mortgage" sold to someone without an actual asset backing, where the only "security" is the belief that the price will continue to rise and the "owner" will in fact pay only the interest (or in many cases less than the interest) is not a mortgage at all. An Interest-Only note is not legally a mortgage as no principal paydown is contemplated or made and at the end of the term no conveyance to the putative owner takes place; likewise a "mortgage" where the borrower is qualified on a teaser rate for an "Option ARM" should have brought immediate criminal fraud charges to the purveyor, since there was no reasonable expectation by the firm writing it that the principal would be paid. Indeed, such "buyers" were never homeowners, but rather were simply renting their properties from the bank! The loans were written with a repayment plan in effect - it just was put into the last twenty years. You've been very good in the past at not going so far with your outrage as to cloud your view of legalities. While you are in effect right here, I don't think the legal profession would see it that way. JMTC ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-10-16 11:46:20
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Ravenly Posts: 332 Incept: 2007-08-19
Ohio
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Amgrace, I've wondered that ever since Eliott Spitzer was outed at a very inconvenient time for many. I bet most have something hanging over their heads. It is clear that this country is entirely run by corporate elitists - they are the puppet masters and absolutely nothing will change. I believe a few bones will be tossed onto the public to keep distracting their attention away from blatant theft of their livelihoods. When the crisis hits, spindoctors will come out en masse to produce a logical explanation - probably naming a political party who is solely at fault to give the sheeple's anger a direction away from where it should be. The charade will continue.
2009-10-16 11:49:19
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Quote:The loans were written with a repayment plan in effect - it just was put into the last twenty years. You've been very good in the past at not going so far with your outrage as to cloud your view of legalities. While you are in effect right here, I don't think the legal profession would see it that way. JMTC Again, the key is here: Quote:likewise a "mortgage" where the borrower is qualified on a teaser rate for an "Option ARM" should have brought immediate criminal fraud charges to the purveyor, since there was no reasonable expectation by the firm writing it that the principal would be paid. In many cases the fully-amortized P&I (post "reset" or "recast") exceeded the buyer's net income, and in some cases it exceeded their gross income. It would be virtually impossible to argue (in court or anywhere else) that the lender contemplated amortization of the principal at the time of origination, which is an essential component of a loan sold as a "mortgage." You can sell a secured loan without that element but to be a mortgage it must contemplate and be reasonably expected to lead to the payment of both principal AND interest. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-10-16 11:50:29
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Kwl88 Posts: 304 Incept: 2009-04-16 KC, MO
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Genesis, This and other items you have mentined might be wrong - BUT it might not be worth(ie. its not feasible versus hunting down other wrongs) to follow-up via legal action(ie criminal fraud or a breach of contract or etc.). That's true whether its an Attorney General's Office or your local Prosecutor's Office or your own attorney. Hence, what might be wrong, misguided or downright blatantly illegal won't be followed-up with legal recourse if it would cost more to followup versus the reward of the final verdict, etc.... Maybe that's why most of these items aren't being prosecuted AND Maybe the firms/people who would be worthwhile to bust are the ones that have bought TPTB?
2009-10-16 12:05:30
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