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| User Info | To The States: Should We Talk About Secession? in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1505-T....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-10-11 15:27:28
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Mm^^ Posts: 2330 Incept: 2008-10-01 
Gone, Baby, Gone
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Slavery was a red herring by those who really want to look. Lincoln used that as a reason to entice a couple of wavering states, and to help build his army with freed slaves. It was never about "that" at the start. Anyone that thinks differently was educated at public schools, me thinks. (or is a sheeple). Anyway, it's long past talking about it. The time is start a session movement NOW, and, because this will take some time, might get the attention needed to stop these crooks in their tracks. Besides that, holding Frank, Dodd, and the rest as prisoners of war has a certain irony I would certainly love to see. I volunteer to run the POW camps... ---------- I always leave cookies. Last modified:
2009-10-11 15:38:20 by mm^^
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Jcwaliski Posts: 1896 Incept: 2008-10-01 
Chief Douchebag
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After the "War Between the States", it all began to go to crap once state legislatures could no longer elect Senators. I'm glad at least one other person realizes that slavery was only a strawman in the 1850's. In fact, Lincoln was quoted as saying as much on numerous occasions. The North did not want the freed slaves anymore than the South wanted them free...
---------- Ultimately, we are all seeking the truth--to expose it, lay it bare, own it as our own. My take on this place is simply that there will be NO COMPROMISE in exposing what IS. - Truthseeker
2009-10-11 15:39:35
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey Online
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Quote:State governments must rise and demand an end to the banking and balance sheet games. Karl...it sounds good. It really does sound good. But one of the problems is that many if not most of the state governments are just as, if not more corrupt than the federal government. Even in spite of the tremendous deficits hurting the states, the state governments just won't do anything... (State governments - NJ, Mass, NY, Illinois, California, Michigan - corruption comes to mind when I think of these states) I doubt that there is much hope apart from the entire midwest or deep south seceding en masse...(which I really doubt will happen) I think that if there is any hope for the future, it must come from the proles (probably misquoting Winston Smith, from George Orwell's 1984)) ---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this Last modified:
2009-10-11 15:42:26 by stonedog
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Mm^^ Posts: 2330 Incept: 2008-10-01
Gone, Baby, Gone
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Well, JC, you are mostly correct. However, the change in electing Senators was done to curb the "corruption" of them, not to centralize it. There were far more crooks in the Senate then, than now. Do some google.........
---------- I always leave cookies.
2009-10-11 15:42:10
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Mikeit83 Posts: 265 Incept: 2009-06-19 East Coast
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Gen- Great ticker. I think this is the direction we need to move in... but here is my fear. It is going to take strong STATE governors and state senators and delegates to make this movement happen. In my state, Virginia, this would be very hard to accomplish. Our current gov is the leader of the DNC- he would squash this before it even got its first breath. Im hoping that McDonnell wins the election over "I dont know what a tax is" Deeds... We need to start a thread about where we need to take this movement- we can all agree something needs to be done- but it seems we are all heading in every which way direction. Know what I mean?
2009-10-11 15:42:13
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Jcwaliski Posts: 1896 Incept: 2008-10-01
Chief Douchebag
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Mm^^ - agreed - It all goes back to rights of states over the federal government. As far as corruption, It maight have bad than, but it's pretty damn bad now among Senators.
---------- Ultimately, we are all seeking the truth--to expose it, lay it bare, own it as our own. My take on this place is simply that there will be NO COMPROMISE in exposing what IS. - Truthseeker
2009-10-11 15:45:23
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Wawawa Posts: 104 Incept: 2009-03-18 San Diego, CA
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Speaking of states being screwed, This chart shows state’s receipts compare to a year ago. Does not look good. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/09/2.... ---------- RAT RACE IS OVER, RATS WON :)
2009-10-11 15:47:15
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Uwe Posts: 1029 Incept: 2009-01-03
Philly Burbs
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The Ticker wrote..State and local governments rely on property tax revenues. Yet defaulted mortgages don't pay property taxes. Yes, there's a lien on the property but this doesn't help the municipal budget now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't mortgages subordinate to property tax claims? If so, it seems to me that the mortgage holders are playing with nitro if they're not making the property tax payments on the "extend and pretend" properties. Couldn't State and local tax authorities simply put the properties in question up for Sheriffs' sales, collect the back taxes from the revenue generated, and leave the banks holding an empty bag? I though such a scenario was why mortgage holders insist on escrowing the property tax as part of the monthly payments? -Uwe- ---------- “Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” - Heinlein
2009-10-11 16:09:45
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Wawawa Posts: 104 Incept: 2009-03-18 San Diego, CA
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Karl: Chris Martenson has a report in his letters to his subscribers that shows Central Banks buy more than 100% of US gov. debt. Source is CFR (Council on Foreign Relations). "Official Sector" means foriegn central banks, and "Economic Buyers" are those who actually care about whether they make money or lose money. CFR link: http://blogs.cfr.org/geographics/2009/10.... Martenson link: http://www.chrismartenson.com/martensoni.... My question is: What is going on here? How much currency (US $) do foreign central banks have? It can not be infinity? Right? ---------- RAT RACE IS OVER, RATS WON :) Last modified:
2009-10-11 16:18:07 by wawawa
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Nuke_engineer Posts: 774 Incept: 2007-08-19
NC
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Wawawa, On WSJ list, Alaska -87% versus 2008? That's a hell of a hit. No wonder Palin jumped ship. She couldn't possibly ever talk about good times during her tenure if that's the true downturn in Alaska receipts! Can you imagine running anything on 13% of the budget? ---------- HAL, All trespassers and pigmen vampires must be shot. Survivors will be shot again. I need to buy more ammunition! Scotty, Beam Me Up to the Land of Glass-Stegall!
2009-10-11 16:16:56
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Wawawa Posts: 104 Incept: 2009-03-18 San Diego, CA
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Nuke: you are right , that explains Palin's departure. I thought Alaska has lots of income because of oil riggs!
---------- RAT RACE IS OVER, RATS WON :)
2009-10-11 16:20:01
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Fidgit Posts: 14065 Incept: 2008-02-18
AllyBammy
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YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ETA: Forwarding to my governor & state legislators...thanks! ---------- I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it. Last modified:
2009-10-11 16:24:46 by fidgit
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Iou Posts: 186 Incept: 2009-03-16
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Gen, How does one go about getting this seed planted in his/her state? I think this is our last and only hope to put an end to this Federal sponsored in your face FRAUD. I want these bastards to pay for their crimes. I would prefer it be administered based on our Rule of Law rather than by TSHF mob justice. ---------- "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frédéric Bastiat LEFT vs. RIGHT Look up shell game and shills.
2009-10-11 16:32:44
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Laura Posts: 3153 Incept: 2008-05-05
Florida Space Coast
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I knew slavery was a red herring and I was educated in public schools, of course, Southern public schools.
---------- Karl's just a shill for Big Math. 1LumpSum Honey, where's the AK ? Tyler Durden My Ford focus can get me from point A to point B just as good Tigger's Cadillac. And my back door window is not broken. Mliu
2009-10-11 16:40:24
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Txin1880 Posts: 1270 Incept: 2009-02-25
Texas
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You know when one guy who's opinion you respect says something, you listen, when several of them are saying the same thing, at the same time, it really gets your attention . . . Gen: I believe it is time for State Governments to openly question whether The Federal Government has violated the contractual limits and stipulations of the US Constitution on an ongoing basis for more than two decades, and whether The States should remain within a Union where one party violates the rights and privileges of the Other Parties with impunity and malice aforethought. GLENN: What does America look like after a crashed dollar? RON PAUL: Not like it looks today. We think it was bad with the financial crisis. When you have a dollar crisis, the whole thing quits functioning. The checks bounce and literally the federal government's checks bounce if you have -- if inflation goes up -- GLENN: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Does that mean that all of your friends in Washington then just go away? RON PAUL: Yeah, that might be a good part of it. GLENN: That might be a good idea! I say we crash the dollar today if that's the effect! RON PAUL: I think we're going to have a de facto Tenth Amendment, secession. People are just going to ignore the federal government because they won't -- and there's, you know, a total loss of credibility. You know, this idea that Obama says that we're going to have all this new medical care, we're going to take care of everybody and it's not going to cost us anything and we're going to balance the budget and actually cut the deficit by giving people more services, all that does is build, you know, the lack of credibility and people just say that's not believable. But no, it will continue that way. And the checks will keep coming. People will get their Social Security checks. But like this year, even though there's been a lot of inflation that they don't admit to, there's no cost of living increases in the Social Security check. So the people who are dependent on fixed incomes or Social Security, their standard of living is going down right now and it will continue to go down. It will go down rapidly in the midst of a dollar crisis. ---------- Don't just starve the beast, slit it's throat. "Blow up your TV, throw away your paper. ~ John Prine
2009-10-11 16:41:44
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Snaggle Posts: 26 Incept: 2007-10-22 Banned
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Hoping that 'the states' will somehow rise up like knights in shining armor to right the terrible wrongs done by the evil federal government is beyond naive. I really thought you were capable of a little more critical thought than that. Can you name a single state's government that isn't just as corrupt as the fed? Everywhere you look, from farm subsidies and subsidized corn & ethanol to pension deals, massive tax breaks for corporations to set up shop in a locality, and turning a blind eye to prosecuting employers of illegals, state and local governments are indistinguishable from the fed. Every level of government has budgets that work the same way - spend the entire thing or it gets cut the next year. I know someone who works at a library, and they buy new computers every December to spend the budget. I know a guy who used to work in schools cleaning gum off desks with 10 other people, doing the work of about 1 or 2. Ask ANYONE who's worked in the military or any other government position and they will have stories about spending the rest of the budget in December. The problem, as you've pointed out many times, is that democracy has been subverted by monied interests who are in control of our government. The problem is lazy, stupid Americans who know and do nothing about what's going on. This stupid ****ing talk about secession is not only based on a ridiculous presumption of good states VS evil feds, but it's as counterproductive as it can possibly be. This country needs to be united in its anger, not divided into 50 petty factions. Not distracted into nonsense debates about self-destructive secession, which can and will never happen in any case. It's OUR ****ing government, and we can force it to do whatever we want, just like in the 60s. What we need is a MLK to unite us to force our leaders to bend to our will, not this stupid divisive drivel.
2009-10-11 16:43:31
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Mayorquimby Posts: 5868 Incept: 2008-09-18
Ponzi Planet
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Secession is a LONG ways off considering the number of entitlement programs required to sustain millions of elderly et al. The more crap people need from the Feds, the more the Feds can take advantage of the peeps.
---------- It's a PONZI ECONOMY and it already HAS collapsed. Now they need more ponzi!
2009-10-11 16:53:20
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Captbill Posts: 485 Incept: 2008-07-22
Arizona's West Coast
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Quote:The more crap people need from the Feds, the more the Feds can take advantage of the peeps. Hence the reason they have to cram down a health care plan. No matter how you look at it this just cannot end well. Thanks for the great Sunday Tickers KD.
2009-10-11 16:56:55
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Karens Posts: 34 Incept: 2009-04-20 Georgia
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In our county they tried to raise property taxex but it was voted down. To get extra revenue, they took away our homestead credit so we owed almost $300 more anyway!
2009-10-11 16:59:24
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Yaldor Posts: 1430 Incept: 2008-05-17
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Carl, They would just print more money and give it to the states ---------- For every crash the probability of someone showing that he predicted it is near 1 . For every prediction of an imminent crash the probability of it being correct is almost zero
2009-10-11 17:00:15
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Statusquojoe Posts: 2397 Incept: 2008-11-20
Land of the fees Home of the slaves.
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Snaggle, you seem to have bought into the collectivist mindset lock stock and barrel. The truth is entitlement programs are toast, there is no way the Federal government is going to be able to honor some $50 trillion and growing entitlements. The sooner we face this reality the better.
---------- "In short, you are the definition of moral hazard." Senator Bunning to Bernanke
2009-10-11 17:01:39
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Snaggle Posts: 26 Incept: 2007-10-22 Banned
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statusquo, thanks for the non sequitur. I don't know who you're arguing with but it's not me. I didn't say anything about the unfunded liabilities this country faces, nor did you explain how breaking up the country into 50 little countries will solve that problem. The fundamental problem is we've been living off the credit card for 30 years and it's time to start recognizing reality, at EVERY LEVEL. This has to come from the people, because our leaders are nothing but bribed puppets for whoever wrote the check. This is true at every level of government, and I defy you to prove otherwise. I notice none of you pro-secession sheep have mentioned a single state who is LESS corrupt than the federal government, or how exactly splitting up one big ass problem into 50 problems is going to be constructive. I don't know if you've noticed, but we ARE A COLLECTIVE. If this country fails, we are ALL ****ed. That's the point. You can pretend otherwise if it makes you feel happy inside. Over the last 30 years, our dumbass government has made promises it can't pay in the future, I agree. Feel free to connect the dots for my wee little mind how that leads to inevitable secession and how that will make everything wonderful again.
2009-10-11 17:19:58
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Statusquojoe Posts: 2397 Incept: 2008-11-20
Land of the fees Home of the slaves.
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Hey Snaggle I am flattered that you took the time to respond to my comment, perhaps you are looking for somewhere to vent your anger? Perhaps I jumped to the wrong conclusion that you were arguing that to solve any problem we have to look at it from the perspective of a unified front of all 50 states agreeing on a singular policy. Actually all the answers were built into the contract to begin with, i.e. the constitution as the states formed the Federal Government not the other way around. The more centralized power that we form, the more likely we are to be subjected to tyranny and degradation of our natural rights, so to me logically the answer does not lie in adding new legislation or reforming the existing system by the cheerleading of a new JFK or a new MLK. The answer lies in decentralization of power therein lies the path to individual liberty. States rights and nullification are a viable route to puruse IMO before a more radical approach of succession is pursued. In particular nullification by states of Federally issued commerce clause interpretations would undo some of the damage. The corruption you noted at the state level is caused by the centralization of power at the federal level and IMO in particular to monetary policy. If the monetary policy was decentralized then the states would be required to be more responsible for their own monetary policies. ---------- "In short, you are the definition of moral hazard." Senator Bunning to Bernanke
2009-10-11 17:39:37
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Leonidas Posts: 227 Incept: 2008-09-06
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Quote from Gen: "Got it? It's a policy to screw the state and local governments. Huh, you say? It's simple, really: State and local governments rely on property tax revenues. Yet defaulted mortgages don't pay property taxes. Yes, there's a lien on the property but this doesn't help the municipal budget now." AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------- Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is it's nature? Marcus Aurelius
2009-10-11 17:39:42
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