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| User Info | The Swindle Continues in forum [Ticker] | ||||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/779-Th....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-07 15:47:53
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Maple Posts: 4461 Incept: 2007-09-03 
Southern California
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Typo alerts: (and losses) born, losses would be born.
2009-02-07 15:53:14
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Mayorquimby Posts: 5868 Incept: 2008-09-18
Ponzi Planet
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Great ticker, KD. Thanks for keeping on top of this. I would have missed this one.
---------- It's a PONZI ECONOMY and it already HAS collapsed. Now they need more ponzi!
2009-02-07 15:58:53
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Froghat Posts: 213 Incept: 2009-01-28 Banned
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So, how long do you think the market will rally before people realize what's goin on?
2009-02-07 15:59:16
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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The bond market will be the controller on this, I suspect. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-07 15:59:40
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Mm^^ Posts: 2330 Incept: 2008-10-01 
Gone, Baby, Gone
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PIMCO is on board.
---------- I always leave cookies.
2009-02-07 16:13:09
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Laura Posts: 3153 Incept: 2008-05-05
Florida Space Coast
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Mm^^ Your insights have been especially profound lately. Thanks for sharing. Genesis Nice exposition on Fed Reserve and much needed in the Forum, IMO. ---------- Karl's just a shill for Big Math. 1LumpSum Honey, where's the AK ? Tyler Durden My Ford focus can get me from point A to point B just as good Tigger's Cadillac. And my back door window is not broken. Mliu Last modified:
2009-02-07 16:19:25 by laura
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Tesla Posts: 8175 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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This is just so criminal. **** the taxpayer while patting him on the back. They KNOW these things are mostly worthless; the valuation is going to be whatever they think they can get away with. They will leave the taxpayer gaping with more holes than you ever thought a human body could contain  , a lot more than just these two.The fact that you are the only one among commentators who see this is just that much more sickening. It means the fraud is subtle enough to escape notice...at least for so long as it is necessary for the crooks to claim innocence at some point down the road. ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-02-07 16:35:33
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Implosion Posts: 3210 Incept: 2008-03-20
99.9% of all crash calls are wrong!
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What a ripoff of the taxpayers! If I thought there was a snowball's chance in Hell that our congress critters would listen, I'd say we should fax the 2nd half of the ticker to them. They certainly did not listen last Fall, so I don't know what would change that and make them actually listen. Hopefully the Bond Market will say "no mas" to this nonsense! EDIT: Quote:PIMCO is on board. Yikes! ---------- "You better believe in the PPT! If you haven't by now, you will." - Chummin It's a Global Economic Meltdown (Music Video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzXTxAOQE.... Last modified:
2009-02-07 16:43:20 by implosion
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Dh Posts: 2 Incept: 2009-02-06
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KD, a newbie asks what the bond market would do to control this? He also thanks you for the lessons on Denningerian Economics (a new school, or just a better understanding of an old school?)
2009-02-07 16:56:12
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Halfbrite Posts: 555 Incept: 2008-10-13
Arizona via California
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There are some very smart and shifty people in the govt/bankster partnership. This TALF plan to restart securitization with bogus underlying paper by bribing hedge funds with taxpayer guaranteed obscene returns is diabolically clever, and similar to the slickest of con games. It will probably work. Why would this pump the stock market? Wouldn't big money want to come out of both stocks and bonds and go into TALF product purchases w/gov't guaranteed cash on cash yearly returns of 100-250%? Wouldn't the government want to crash the stock market and support the bond market? They could achieve this by determining which entities they loan to. The govt can control whom they lend TALF money to, so why not lend it to entities that hold stocks (to buy TALF products), and refuse to lend to entities who hold bonds? As stocks crash, more money comes out of stocks and must go into bonds - they cannot purchase talf products, and stocks are crashing, so they must buy bonds, which is the outcome the govt wants. It seems as if stocks should crash rapidly, bonds come down in a controlled fashion, the economy slowly restart as securitization returns, and in 2-3 years we'll have another asset bubble?? TF is the best - would really appreciate opinions as to what the markets will do and how we can all profit from the pigmen/govt manipulations. ---------- "The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others" "Go Galt,and Go Now!" Last modified:
2009-02-07 17:10:04 by halfbrite
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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The bond market would control this by selling off bonds, which raises borrowing costs and interest rates in the real economy - including those paid by the federal government to finance its debt. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-07 16:59:17
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Aja Posts: 2209 Incept: 2008-03-19
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My perpetual question (mostly rhetorical) is the relationship between the equity and bond markets. I see why one would think this would rally equities but given the gigantic supply of Ts that have to be bought, how can equity market go on a rocket shot? I'd think that the T market would have to suck that capital towards itself.
2009-02-07 17:00:52
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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It will and that will kneecap a rally, but there can be a significant delay before it does. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-07 17:01:27
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Shondven Posts: 632 Incept: 2007-08-06
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Since the Fed is backstopped by the Treasury, there are no market incentives to regulate the behavior of the banks. The system is broken. Not only is society undermined by the financial fraud, but also must foot the bill to clean up the aftermath.
2009-02-07 17:03:23
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Aja Posts: 2209 Incept: 2008-03-19
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Right, and it'd be interesting to know where the interest rate has to go on these Ts before there's a kneecap. Any guesses? Looking at the shenanigans last Fall, looks to me as if that can happen quickly and "unexpectedly" Is our government really this stupid? Last modified:
2009-02-07 17:05:18 by aja
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Halfbrite Posts: 555 Incept: 2008-10-13
Arizona via California
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"The bond market will control this by selling off bonds" What will they buy if the govt will not allow them access to TALF products and equities are crashing, as equity holders begin to sell and purchase TALF products? I don't really understand the relationships and $$ amounts of stocks/bonds/TALF etc so any help is appreciated. ---------- "The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others" "Go Galt,and Go Now!"
2009-02-07 17:18:16
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Bullionaire Posts: 1294 Incept: 2007-12-21
Hey Obama ! Kiss my black ass !!!
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And still we don't know what type of "assets" will be accepted. A naked CDS isn't an asset, its just a bet. A synthetic CDO isn't an asset either. It's just a gamble. What a scam...
---------- "Now this REALLY smells like ass." - Karl Deninger 11/11/2009 "KD, I am ready. where is the corn?" - Mliu 11/25/2009 "Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof." - V
2009-02-07 17:50:19
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Mayorquimby Posts: 5868 Incept: 2008-09-18
Ponzi Planet
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Just tell me when I can get REAL interest on short-term cd's.
---------- It's a PONZI ECONOMY and it already HAS collapsed. Now they need more ponzi!
2009-02-07 17:50:51
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Goldmich1 Posts: 32 Incept: 2009-01-07 Michigan
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Great investigative work and a terrific post! The economic playout is like a continual running novel when the reset due to zero hour is closing in on those "in the know" and the bankers continually try innovated and cloaked ways to get the people's money before the reset, hoping to conceal it as means to solve the problem without ****ing off the masses--who will win? Will the bankers get more money from the government? Will the people revolt? Will the governments knock off the bankers? Anybody read the book and know who wins? I would like to read the end to see if I want to even continue or whether I just put it back on the shelf.
2009-02-07 18:26:06
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Tesla Posts: 8175 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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So what might be a WAG for how long this kicks the can down the road ? Given that the real economy is continuing to slide at the moment, does this levitate things until either demand picks up (from somehow and somewhere), or is this just a jerkoff until the CRE and Alt-A resets get going and vastly more foreclosures are in the works than they can possibly handle and still float T-bills and we dive into the abyss ? IOW does this give a boost for a few months then crash, or a few years and who knows what ? Step right up with your best guesses ! ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-02-07 19:02:00
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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I suspect it will rally the stock market for a little while, as most people in the stock market are too stupid to understand how all this **** works. Whether the bond market will figure it out is another matter. If they do things will get kneecapped fast, unless the bond folks figure they better sidle towards the door slowly lest there be a stampede - in which case the charade may last a while. When the cash flow on those so-called "assets" ceases however the game is up. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-07 19:05:30
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Deejunk Posts: 578 Incept: 2008-10-11 Now DC - Solar Power.
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Screw banks, leveraged relationships and insurance companies. Without them, we have one to one leverage and no insurance... RISK THEN PRICES OUT PERFECTLY... this kind of **** would not have got out of the gate/box. Pay now or... Guido starts by "breaka ya fingas", one at a time or Granny forgives us depending on where we borrow from. ---------- http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2451556/The_.... - I'm seriously ready for inflation, deflation & TOTAL collapse of the US & Global economic & market systems.. I'm the sexy blonde not in this vid but my x is the lead chichen-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFIXsrjk....
2009-02-07 19:08:45
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Shrpblnd Posts: 1169 Incept: 2007-08-06
Los Angeles, CA
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Thanks for dispelling several of the common myths about the Fed. I do have just a few quibbles with what you wrote though:Quote:Banks Must Become Members of The Fed System; Technically only national banks must be members of the Fed. State banks may be charted by their respective state government, and do not necessarily have to be member banks. Non-member banks, in fact, have the same access to the discount window as member banks. It is worth noting that prior to the Monetary Control Act of 1980 (which gave the Fed more control over non-member banks), the Fed was actually steadily losing member banks, who elected to be state banks instead. You also said "The Federal Reserve is privately owned by its member banks which in turn are privately owned by their members." It would be slightly more accurate to say that the member banks are owned by their stockholders. Of course, virtually all member banks' stock is publicly traded, and consequently ownership is widely distributed. Last modified:
2009-02-07 19:30:19 by shrpblnd
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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What I was talking about is the Fed District Banks; to be a member of the Fed system you must buy capital stock in the district bank. Therefore, technically, the banks are the owners of the district fed. However, you are correct in that since most of those banks are publically held the fed is (indirectly) as well. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-07 19:28:04
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