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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/830-Th....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-25 12:27:59
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Bogey Posts: 728 Incept: 2008-03-12 
Montana Online
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Re: the point about DC "wanting more money" for enforcement, to this I say YES! We have to get over this quaint notion of gentleman legislators going to Washington to serve out their sense of civic duty. They're going there for one reason and one reason only: to get paid. And get paid they will, one way or the other. So it makes sense to me that we must pay the cops more to enforce the law than the robbers can pay them to break it. It's the only way we're going to get .gov's motives aligned with the taxpayers.
2009-02-25 12:46:55
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Cerich Posts: 81 Incept: 2008-12-17 ga
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and for another view.... Bernanke: Bail out bad borrowers too * David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer * Wednesday February 25, 2009, 12:04 pm EST * Yahoo! Buzz Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said Wednesday that the embattled housing market has crippled the economy, and at-risk homeowners need a bailout - even if they knew they couldn't afford their home in the first place. "Some borrowers presumably knew what they were getting into," Bernanke said before the House Financial Services Committee. "But from a public policy point of view, the large amount of foreclosures are detrimental not just to the borrower and lender but to the broader system." "In many of these situations we have to trade off the moral hazard issue against the greater good," he added. Bernanke's comments come after President Obama unveiled a $75 billion plan Feb. 18 to help up to 9 million borrowers suffering from falling home prices and unaffordable monthly payments. Borrowers with little or no equity will be able to refinance their mortgages at the current market rate, and monthly payments will be reduced for at-risk borrowers. Committee Chairman Barney Frank, D-Mass., said he supported the president's actions, and agreed with Bernanke that moral hazard needs to take a back seat for the time being. But Bernanke said it is critical that government continue to regulate the markets so a repeat of the mortgage meltdown does not happen again. "Part of the issue was mortgages that should not have been made and lenders did not take sufficient responsibility," he said. "We must address how we can solve these problems for the future." Frank said he is committed to introducing legislation before the April recess to increase mortgage lending regulation. "When we talk about stopping this from repeating itself, we're not simply going on people having had a bad feeling about it," Frank said. "But we are talking about rules and laws that will make it impossible." Some members of the committee took issue with previous efforts to fix the foreclosure crisis, arguing that the government should have been focused on helping at-risk borrowers instead of easing the credit markets. "Instead of lifting up the situation of the borrower, federal policy lowered the standards of the lender," said Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas. Furthermore, not every committee member was certain that bold, unprecedented action, which Bernanke and the Obama administration have touted, is the right way to go. "I'm worried that the [government's] policies will only delay the inevitable -- a full correction of the market -- while saddling future generations with trillions of dollars in debt," said Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J. Bernanke's testimony comes a day after he cautioned the Senate Banking Committee that a full economic recovery will take "more than two or three years." He reiterated that outlook Wednesday. The Fed chief also downplayed talk that the government might have to nationalize some of the country's most troubled banks. "The debate over nationalization kind of misses the point," said Bernanke. "[The government can] use the already very substantial powers that we already have through supervisory powers, through TARP, to make sure that banks don't just sit there. There's no need to do any radical change."
2009-02-25 12:54:21
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Eli Posts: 3844 Incept: 2007-09-10 
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Nice ticker clear and to the point, agree with the two choices. Unfortunately it seems Ben, Obama, and all of CONgress are choosing option 3. Which is: only do what is politically easy.
2009-02-25 13:02:51
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Karrl - fantastic ticker! Things that you think people would instinctively KNOW. But laying it out like you do really puts things in perspective. Question - do you have any opinion as to the current probability of O & Co. pursuing option #1 "punishing the fraudsters across the board and clamping down on all manner of fraud "???? I apologize if you've recently answered this question. Was in LA visiting the brother and have missed about most of the last week's tickers and most discussions on the forum concerning this...Thanks... ---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-02-25 13:05:30
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Very low Stonedog. But if its not done, we're headed for the 30s - if we're lucky. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-25 13:09:26
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Photopro Posts: 372 Incept: 2008-03-18
Republic of Texas - got .308? Online
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Amen Brother!
---------- It is very dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. — Voltaire http://www.RxSaveMoney.com
2009-02-25 13:11:47
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Wcoeqpk862 Posts: 1746 Incept: 2009-02-17
San Francisco, California
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anyone here the guy right now asking heli Ben about what the hell they are going to do? "What's the new term now, Legacy? Give that guy a raise" LOL
2009-02-25 13:17:24
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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KD - that's about what I thought. It's absurd on it's face though...it seems as though the /.gov is trying to bring about the 1930s again. It's insanity. It doesn't make sense unless they seriously are just trying to postpone the inevitable. I always thought that was the case under Bush II...but under this bunch, they are postponing something that they will have to deal with anyway. I understand that politicians try to delay judgment day, but I just can't understand their reasoning. ---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-02-25 13:22:27
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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They seem to think we can get through this without that pound of flesh, and people who were ****ed will return. They're used to being able to TELL people what to do (e.g. tax authority, etc) Unfortunately you can't TELL a private capital owner what to do with his or her capital. Thsi is not open to debate or discussion - it just IS. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-25 13:24:16
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Unless you do what the Soviets did when they socialized everything (happened to my grandfather in then Czechoslovakia)...but our .gov couldn't be THAT stupid, could they?
---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-02-25 13:28:18
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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That results in the collapse of living standards WORSE than what we'll get from the withdrawal of private credit. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-25 13:28:50
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Let's hope that is a zero probability event.
---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-02-25 13:31:08
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Rutben Posts: 900 Incept: 2007-07-27
Phoenix, AZ
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#2 and fraudsters getting punished are both equally inevitable, the latter unfortunately not expected to occur within the legal system. Clairvoyant fraudsters might even rationalize that it may be in their best interest to serve time within the legal system....and the earlier they come clean, the better off they will be.
2009-02-25 13:32:02
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Eli Posts: 3844 Incept: 2007-09-10
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Yeah, Ben saying again we need to bail out bad borrowers again, he should be asked to step down immediately because he is asking directly to cover fraud with more fraud. Since no one in political circles is asking him to step down the chances we will be able to avoid something worse than the depression is becoming infinitesimal.
2009-02-25 13:32:32
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Yep. I can think of worse things in life than jail, some of them a LOT worse. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-25 13:34:27
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Tesla Posts: 8180 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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Quote:critical that government continue to regulate the markets How about start to regulate the markets...with enforcement. Let the nonviolent druggies out of prison and replace them with the fraudsters. ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-02-25 13:35:45
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Arkon Posts: 43 Incept: 2009-02-06
Arlington, TX
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Great ticker, Karl! Has "ticker-classic" written all over it. I'm definitely going to use this for anyone who thinks this are turning around, while the fraudsters still roam with impugnity.
2009-02-25 13:36:32
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Tesla - that would be real change to believe in. Personally I favor having all of those responsible for this $#!t share their cells with other hardcore criminals in the prisons. You know, killers, rapists, etc..
---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-02-25 13:38:42
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Baldy Posts: 6555 Incept: 2008-05-16
Pittsburgh
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The Executive Branch is the chief LEO of the nation. Is there anything to stop Governors or AGs from going after fraudsters? NY State has a habit of going afgter SOME people (IMO often for show and furthering one's career, but still).
---------- FY2011 Budget - Hist'l Tables (PDF 2.0 MB) http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/hist.pdf 1996-2011 budgets: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html
2009-02-25 13:42:11
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Tesla Posts: 8180 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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Hey, that would be change I'd support too ! Bubba and the bankster, yay 
---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-02-25 13:42:16
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Stonedog Posts: 1105 Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Tesla - if that were to happen, it would make it very unlikely any of this $#!t ever happened again...and even if it did it would be at seriously reduced levels. No more country clubs. Hard time. Hard and painful...
---------- "F**k CNBS, CONgress, Obama, the Democrats, the Republicans, the ratings agencies, the Banksters, the Fed, the FASB, all the government regulatory agencies, the Trilateral Commission, the Council of Foreign Relations, the G whatever, the UN, and any other bastard or big corporate interest that has a fingerprint on this
2009-02-25 13:45:42
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Schwantz Posts: 5077 Incept: 2007-11-12
Monkey Do
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At some point, the criminals will WANT the government to arrest and charge them. We're a long way from that point right now, but everything's on record.
---------- Dives sum, si non reddo eis quibus debeo Smash the Keynesian idiocracy!
2009-02-25 13:53:55
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Mezzmor Posts: 507 Incept: 2008-10-09
Orlando, FL
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Obama didn't need a one hour speech last night to spark a 3000 point rally in the Dow. In fact he needed only two sentences. [applause on his way to the podium] [more useless applause] [Pelosi spouts the euphoric intro] [even more useless applause] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. OK STOP ALREADY! My fellow Americans, Effective immediately, we will audit every bank, investment bank, and mortgage firm to get down to the bottom of the fraud that got us here - and make no mistake - when we find you, you will be prosecuted without prejeudice. Ya'll mother****ers have about 4 hours to come forward because at midnight, we start; and my recommendation is that if you wish to avoid Bubba your cellmate, you get the **** in line now and start spilling your guts. God Bless you, and may God bless the United States of America! [leaves podium] [stunned silence] [crickets chirping]
2009-02-25 13:55:04
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Margincalltime Posts: 830 Incept: 2008-04-01
NJ
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Attacking the fraud now is locking the barn door after the horse has already escaped. Does the fraud need to be prosecuted aggressively? No question, but the fraud already built up asset prices to unsustainable levels. Capital is unlikely to come back until those prices find their "natural" level. The quicker that happens the better off we'll be. The chances of the Fed/Treasury allowing this to happen are exactly ZERO though. It's become clear from the testimonies that they are purposely propping up institutions and willfully ignoring the fraud in order to cushion the blow for fear of an all out collapse.
2009-02-25 13:59:16
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