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| User Info | Stupidity Bites HARD: Dodd And Frank in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 66463 Incept: 2007-06-26 
Royal Flush! 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1203-S....
---------- I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife? I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me 2009-07-11 14:18:06
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Pabloescobar Posts: 4506 Incept: 2008-04-23 
bubbleville
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Can they kick the can through the next election cycle? I think they can. ---------- "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe "we don't live in a democracy; we live in a hypocrisy" Brain 2009-07-11 14:23:37
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Genesis Posts: 66463 Incept: 2007-06-26
Royal Flush!
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Nope Pablo. This was the error the Republicans made in the spring and summer of 08. They believed they could get away with it until after the election. History says it never works out like that. ---------- I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife? I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me 2009-07-11 14:26:24
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Irishsamurai Posts: 127 Incept: 2008-11-03 Atlanta, GA
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Pablo, Gen: I think they can kick the can through 2010. 2012? No freaking way ... but if Obama tries, the piper will probably be paid in significant American bloodshed. ---------- "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill 2009-07-11 14:35:18
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Genesis Posts: 66463 Incept: 2007-06-26
Royal Flush!
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Irish - Clinton thought he could kick it for less than a year in 2000. Wrong. Bush and McCain thought he could in 2007/08. Wrong. Obama may think he can again, but that's 18 months out. Not gonna work. We can, however, have most of the damage done by 2010, if we take it right here and now. If they wait another six months they will get it in the face no matter whether they try to kick the can or not, just like the last two times. ---------- I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife? I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me 2009-07-11 14:39:02
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Irishsamurai Posts: 127 Incept: 2008-11-03 Atlanta, GA
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Gen, Never gonna happen. Bondzilla will have to come ashore this autumn before the Obama administration and/or Congress do the right thing. If Bondzilla never makes an appearance, they'll just continue to "hide the sausage" in another orifice of the taxpayer ... J6P didn't seemed to mind "Playing Lewinsky" (TARP) or "Being Barney" (Porkulus), so maybe when TPTB attempt to come in an eye (Porkulus II) or take out an eardrum (make some crazy stupid crap up that Congress comes up with), the "52-percenters" will wake up and realize "new boss same as the old boss ... just darker skin and more eloquent" ... and we'll finally grow some balls like the people of Honduras and/or Iran. ---------- "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill 2009-07-11 14:49:25
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Ptoemmes Posts: 75 Incept: 2009-04-13
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"What must be recognized is that there are only two choices: We can accept that amount of economic pain in full, here and now, or we can continue to add to it and try to put it off until later." Strikes me a bit like application of the power rule or law of exponents. The longer the "can is kicked down the road" the (exponentially) greater the pain is going to be. I wonder if the hidden debt that needs to be flushed is in fact rising exponentially or not? I thought Bill Moyers closing comments on last night's show about the joke known as Health Care Reform as being played out in DC has some applicability when taken in the general sense of how DC works. His context was Health Care Reform and he referenced the aborted attempt by WaPo to have their "pay to play" health care dinners, but again seems to have general descriptive applicability methinks. " .. Let that sink in. The "stakeholders" in health care reform in this case do not include the rabble — the folks across the country who actually need quality health care but can't afford it. If any of them showed up at the kitchen door on the night of this little soiree, a bouncer would drop kick them beyond the beltway. In other words, before you can cross the threshold in Washington to reach "the select few who will actually get it done," you must first cross the palm of some outstretched hand. The dinner was canceled after the invite was leaked to the website politico.com — by a health care lobbyist, of all people. But it was enough to give us a glimpse into how things really work in Washington. A clear insight into why there is such a great disconnect between democracy and government today, between Washington and the rest of the country. ... It's not about compromise. It's not about what the public wants. It's about money, the golden ticket to "the select few who actually get it done." And nothing will change. Nothing. Until the money-lenders are tossed out of the temple, and we tear down the sign they've placed on government — the one that reads: "For sale." Pete 2009-07-11 14:57:40
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Pabloescobar Posts: 4506 Incept: 2008-04-23
bubbleville
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I'm just getting demoralized... Obscene stock market manipulation.... Obscene bond market manipulation.... Obscene gold market manipulation... Obscene rule of law manipulation... Obscene vote counting manipulation... Obscene bankruptcy law manipulation... Obscene interference in true capitalism... I am trying right now to think of a market or government controlled entity, that I trust to be fair. There are no more good guys. When there is no trust in the system anymore, then the corollary becomes true. Trust no one, and try to screw your neighbor, local businessman, .gov entity, etc. before they screw you. Many, many of the posts here have that theme. ---------- "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe "we don't live in a democracy; we live in a hypocrisy" Brain Last modified:
2009-07-11 16:01:32 by pabloescobar
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Blackswan Posts: 3361 Incept: 2007-11-06 
Execution Pit
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Great summary of the damage done to this country by those two clowns Frank and Dodd turning banking into an organized crime syndicate.(and all other complicit Senators and Congresstards.) The Clock does seem to be just about out of time. Only a few people I know really have any idea. Clownafornia - boom Velocity of money - boom Unemployment rate - boom Soon you will be able to overlay the stock market decline and Obama's approval rating perfectly. God help us. ---------- The market can crash further then you can remain short. Trade the moon cycle not the tape you want. 2009-07-11 15:07:02
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Memememe Posts: 89 Incept: 2009-06-21 Southern California
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What about the CIT Group potential bankruptcy news.. http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-2009.... Can you translate this into English too? My eyes are starting to glaze over. 2009-07-11 15:21:19
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Aja Posts: 1956 Incept: 2008-03-19
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If only the clock would run out..... but that's probably just California dreaming I've been thinking the clock has or must run out for almost 2 years. As long as the government allows the institutional lying to continue and indeed makes institutional lying a bedrock part of the system, it will not run out until there is not one spare dime to be had from any member of our unfortunate "middle class" (i.e. people who earn a living and try to pay taxes and bills). And, I do not think it will ever "bite hard" for Dodd, Frank, or the rest of those who are profiting mightily from this whole farce. Last modified:
2009-07-11 15:30:18 by aja
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Cyppok Posts: 35 Incept: 2009-03-25
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they are/were already werking on shifting second liens defaults by recycling them through this program "Making Home Affordable Program" http://www.financialstability.gov/docs/0.... basically they are on it trying to help banks make all second liens whole in some way or another I dont think 75 billion will do it. 2009-07-11 16:03:20
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Jlk Posts: 626 Incept: 2009-05-24
Philadelphia Online
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"KD" wrote..The same banks that lobbied hard to "reform" bankruptcy so you cannot file Chapter 7 any more when you go bankrupt and stick lenders with the bad lending decisions they made of their own free will. That is, your credit and financial life is ruined, but theirs (which should also be ruined) is not. Except that Dodd, Frank and that crew were also leaning on the banks back to make the bad lending decisions. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who take on loans they can't pay back and stick the system with their bills. People who have debt washed away through bankruptcy should have to do mandatory community service for several years picking up trash alongside highways, etc. in order to earn back what the system had to eat because of them. There are plenty of jobs they could do. Send them to the landfills and let them pick out recyclable material. In fact while we are at it let's have the irresponsible bank execs and politicians like Frank and Dodd sent there as well so they can work elbow to elbow with the deadbeats picking through dirty diapers in the hot sun. 2009-07-11 16:04:23
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Bearshort Posts: 1765 Incept: 2007-09-13
NYC
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All this kicking the can down the road has made millions of people feel they are entitled to a bail out too, creating unforeseen moral hazard. Those of us who were responsible in our borrowing are getting angrier by the day.....as for me, looking for another country to live........**** Congress, Senate, Rule of Law???? Tired of paying for other's ****-ups! ---------- The Fed has a vault full of Vomit! 2009-07-11 16:12:02
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Widgeon Posts: 5671 Incept: 2007-08-30
OK
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I think the clock was very nearly "out" in March ... I'm sure some extraordinary things have been done (all illegal and unreported) in the meantime - especially w/ regards to rallying the markets to give the banks some additional breathing room. Can they pull off the same prop-job when the inevitable next wave comes ashore? Don't know. 2009-07-11 16:14:59
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Aja Posts: 1956 Incept: 2008-03-19
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Widgeon -- in answer to your question, remember the famous words: Yes, We Can!! 2009-07-11 16:19:44
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Statusquojoe Posts: 2048 Incept: 2008-11-20
Land of the fees Home of the slaves.
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Must be time for another stimulus.Ludwig von Mises wrote..True, governments can reduce the rate of interest in the short run. They can issue additional paper money. They can open the way to credit expansion by the banks. They can thus create an artificial boom and the appearance of prosperity. But such a boom is bound to collapse soon or late and to bring about a depression. ---------- "The value of a man's opinion, is the price he has paid to have it." Author unknown. 2009-07-11 16:21:30
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Tritumi Posts: 81 Incept: 2008-11-29 tokyo
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Dead Man Walking
2009-07-11 16:28:23
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Madman Posts: 1287 Incept: 2007-09-13
ct,USA
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I have often wondered KD what would happen "IF".. if we forced the bad debt out into the open and if several of the largest banks in the country were subsequently forced into BK along with perhaps hundreds of regional and smaller banks and if this collapse led to corporate failures on a large scale, what would REALLY happen? I realize unemployment would skyrocket and misery would rule the day but how would it play out? how would we go about structuring a recovery and what kind of time line would we be looking at? would we have a decade of double digit unemployment? how would we tackle the aftermath? how would we go about keeping people housed and fed? how long would the pain last IF we decide to " bite the bullet " and get it over with.........
---------- "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln - Corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by workin 2009-07-11 16:39:11
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Widgeon Posts: 5671 Incept: 2007-08-30
OK
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Jumping in ... very few, if any, have advocated for an actual "do nothing" approach. I remember KD writing that these bailout funds (TARP) were going to be needed to set-up actual relief infrastucture ... to feed and house people in the interim and that we shouldn't be spending it now to bailout the very crooks that got us here. I'm probably over generalizing, but in that I see a rough path before us where there was/is an actual federal need to conduct work/food/shelter activities very much similar to what occurred in the 30's. As it is we're even screwing that up ... we pay people to watch american idol instead of demanding at least some work for their largesse. Also, the "work" that is being done through federal funding is mostly chewed-up through contracting fraud and over-charging. A Very Big Topic 2009-07-11 16:50:03
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Goldmansux Posts: 18 Incept: 2009-06-05
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An outstanding Ticker. You are right in all respects, but they have made their decision. They are going to continue doing what they're doing. Now they are committing fraud to "save the system". By this, I mean the recent pump and dump scheme on selling bank equity. Out and out fraud, orchestrated by many branches of government. They are all insolvent. WFC sold their stock at $22. I will be dramatically increasing my shorts in the financials when the $22 line in the sand is crossed.
---------- I came, I saw, I looted. 2009-07-11 16:59:13
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Chainlink Posts: 416 Incept: 2008-10-26
Florida and Michigan Online
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Pennies on the dollar or net losses. That is what most new construction is worth. Very clearly banks are sitting on foreclosures - already vacated places gather weeds, since they don't have enough money to service foreclosures. Absolutely no signs indicating "for sale". Banks are just playing their hand, stalling the inevitable. To take ownership means they're obligated to pay property taxes and code enforcement fines. And this is just residential. The tsunami commercial will follow the earthquake residential. No way this can be strung out much longer. 2012 forget it. That's why 3rd party efforts are so important now...the 2010 Congressional elections will be historic. I'm back in warning mode again, to my family members who show some indications of understanding. 2009-07-11 17:09:37
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Froghat Posts: 213 Incept: 2009-01-28 Banned
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So, when will the economy collapse? October?
2009-07-11 17:17:49
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Jlk Posts: 626 Incept: 2009-05-24
Philadelphia Online
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"Madman" wrote..I have often wondered KD what would happen "IF".. if we forced the bad debt out into the open and if several of the largest banks in the country were subsequently forced into BK along with perhaps hundreds of regional and smaller banks and if this collapse led to corporate failures on a large scale, what would REALLY happen? No one knows what would happen, but there is too much risk for the elite for them to let it happen. Plenty of risk for the rest of us as well. No, they will try to ride it out for at least a while like Japan did, pretending banks are solvent when they are not and taking on a high level of government debt. Unfortunately, the savings rate here is not what it was in Japan, so it will be harder to fund the debt internally. To the extent we have to fund it internally, it will further hurt the economy and crowd out private sector investment. This will make it even clearer that the total debt load cannot be serviced. I think they will have to try to inflate the debt away at some point. In Japan they never were able to induce inflation despite trying for a long time. In order to do it here, they may intentionally crash the dollar. The Chiasso episode may have been laying the groundwork for that. 2009-07-11 17:17:57
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Murf Posts: 2360 Incept: 2007-08-28
the surf
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KD wrote..Greed, all on its own, is not necessarily bad... It is when greed combines with fraud - that is, the knowing and intentional deceit practiced by one for the purpose of screwing someone else, that we have a problem. a simple but important distinction that most people (and especially politicians) fail to make. Great Ticker. ---------- ...comedic mayhem ensues... 2009-07-11 17:40:05
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