RSS available
| MarketTicker Forums Read Message in Ticker |
User: Not logged on
|
| Top | Forum Top | Login | Control Panel | FAQ | Register | Logout |
| Showing Page 1 of 2  | First | 1 | 2 | Last |
| User Info | Special weekend edition - Bank Reserves? in forum [Ticker] | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71391 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/2008/....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-02-03 23:18:54
Permalink | |||
|
Etrade_refugee Posts: 4965 Incept: 2007-11-14
|
My questions are: 1) How long can this be maintained? 2) What will be required to rectify this situation on the banks' part? Asset sale, capital infusions? 3) When is the TAF money owed back to the Reserve? Can it be "rolled" like commercial paper? What conditions would prevent the banks from rolling the paper? 4) What is a time frame in which this resolves positively or negatively?
2008-02-04 00:40:48
Permalink | |||
|
Vegasradar Posts: 3955 Incept: 2007-07-11
CA
|
Gen, is this the same issue that Mish wrote about? http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.c.... Quote:
Also, Thx for ALL you do! ---------- Remember, all Bennie has is dollars. He destroys the currency, he destroys himself. —Karl Filling in the Pieces- an economic overview: http://storage.denninger.net/ppt/teapart....
2008-02-04 01:08:49
Permalink | |||
|
Blackswan Posts: 3601 Incept: 2007-11-06
Ponzi Roller Coaster
|
Thanks for digging into this KD. I am sure there is a perfectly good explanation. ----------
2008-02-04 01:11:18
Permalink | |||
|
Keepingmyoptions Posts: 238 Incept: 2007-10-21 CA
|
Figured it out. What bothers me more than the negative number is that the total banking reserves in this country are only about $40b. That is less than one month's trade deficit. That has been going on a long time. The sole purpose of TAF seems to be to take TP off the hands of the banks and convert it Fed debt. A bit of financial legerdemain. Good idea in that it is a cheap way to prevent insolvency by the feds. Still this is a socialism of the banking system. Oh and it would seem that this is a 20x leverage on debt by the banks. We have gone from a 10% reserve requirement to 5% to negative. Nice work if you can get it. It would seem that the feds think they have dodged a bullet. This is not over. That is the real problem. ---------- We are in a bicycle economy. The only way to stay solvent is to keep trading, or tip over.
2008-02-04 02:26:29
Permalink | |||
|
Etz3l Posts: 9103 Incept: 2007-06-26
|
...and monolines are still solvent. stardust anyone? ---------- Treating the symptoms of financial corruption isn’t the same as removing the causes.
2008-02-04 02:34:37
Permalink | |||
|
Tom Posts: 1195 Incept: 2007-07-11 London
|
Here's the Mish post: http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.c....
2008-02-04 02:41:20
Permalink | |||
|
Yal Posts: 3544 Incept: 2007-06-27
|
from CR comment line:Quote:The reserves have been spent because banks have expenses. They haven't had any significant income from other banks since August. CP is dead (banks lending to each other) so the banks turn to TAF to avoid closing their doors, or telling customers 'We're out of cash this month.'
2008-02-04 05:54:16
Permalink | |||
|
Bluntfacts Posts: 693 Incept: 2007-10-09 Las Vegas, Nevada
|
Let me make sure if I understand this. If later today, 20 million people try to withdraw $2000 each, it's lights out?
---------- "Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964.
2008-02-04 07:40:48
Permalink | |||
|
Pangloss Posts: 42 Incept: 2007-08-05
|
Another (later) CR comment line offering:Eoghan on Calculated Risk 2/04/08 wrote..I’ve spent quite a bit of time looking at this and trying to figure out what’s going on, so maybe I’ll be able to shed some light. I don’t think the situation is as dramatic as one might think on first glance – but there does seem to be something slightly odd going on.
2008-02-04 07:48:15
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71391 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
Correct. The key ratio is in fact the Tier Capital ratios. Where is that available to us in real time, and if all is ok, can someone explain why we need $50 billion in TAF money (direct fed loans) out there? ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-02-04 07:58:09
Permalink | |||
|
Lurkn Posts: 707 Incept: 2007-08-27
|
Going to get more than 2k here in about an hour. :) L ---------- That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, STARVING THE BEAST & BLEEDING THE BEAST
2008-02-04 08:07:01
Permalink | |||
|
Early_retirement Posts: 1843 Incept: 2007-06-26
Burlington, Vermont
|
That is some scary **** Gen, you're on top of it!
---------- "You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else."
2008-02-04 09:07:28
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71391 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
Not necessarily. Look, reserves are reserves. The problem here isn't that the reserves are inadequate (they're not; required < available) Its that the banks are lending into a locked market for "hard money". That's bothersome because if the market doesn't un-freeze it portends NOT bank failures but a massive liquidity contraction. You know, that "debt default deflation spiral" that we've talked about? Yeah, that. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-02-04 09:08:47
Permalink | |||
|
Jerryh Posts: 118 Incept: 2007-11-26
|
Eoghan's post on Calculated Risk is correct. This number, by itself, means nothing about the solvency or liquidity of the banks. It is just the amount of required reserves (which hasn't changed that much, meaning deposits haven't changed that much), minus the amount the banks have borrowed from the Fed. We all know there has been $50 billion in borrowings against the TAF. The way this number is defined, it has to be negative, but it's just a calculated number based on two measurements that aren't much related to each other. If the TAF went away, this number would go positive. What this doesn't tell us is whether the banks need to borrow to maintain their reserves, or if they're just taking advantage of some "below market" money. The vault cash numbers seem to indicate that the banks have plenty of cash. Look, a lot of the banks are serious trouble, but this particular "indicator" doesn't indicate anything important, nor does it help anyone understand the banking crisis any better.
2008-02-04 09:10:46
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71391 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
Actually, no Jerry, it does tell us quite a bit. It tells us that all of the required reserves are now TAF loans. This tells us that the "hard money" that is normally behind debt initiation has departed. If this does not return, and soon, debt initiation will grind to a halt. The Fed cannot be the source for debt initiation; $50 billion every two months for how long? That won't continue for very long, because it effectively means that trust is gone, and this will shortly be recognized by Mr. Market. When it is, it won't be pretty. I've updated the blog entry so that people understand what this really does mean. Its NOT a marker of imminent bank insolvency, as you correctly note. It IS a marker of a potential deflationary credit-initiation collapse. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-02-04 09:25:13
Permalink | |||
|
Yal Posts: 3544 Incept: 2007-06-27
|
another comment:Quote:I’ve spent quite a bit of time looking at this and trying to figure out what’s going on, so maybe I’ll be able to shed some light. I don’t think the situation is as dramatic as one might think on first glance – but there does seem to be something slightly odd going on.
2008-02-04 10:01:18
Permalink | |||
|
Yal Posts: 3544 Incept: 2007-06-27
|
and this may be of interst as well: http://benbittrolff.blogspot.com/2008/02....
2008-02-04 10:02:24
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71391 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
Yal, read the above (or go back and read the Ticker again - I basically put the above in there) Basically this isn't a marker of imminent bank collapse, but it is a marker of potential imminent debt initiation collapse. The latter doesn't bankrupt the banks, but it sure does squick the markets. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-02-04 10:02:48
Permalink | |||
|
Guydaley Posts: 10915 Incept: 2007-07-10
Missouri & Wyoming Online
|
Gen, You have a title yet for your compiled tickers book? Maybe one day it will be required reading in somebodies class. Its funny, WW I veterans called it the War to End all Wars. But it was nothing compared to WW II. In the same sense, it was called the Great Depression and it could never happen again because we have too many safeguards (i.e. Uncle Sam has unlimited borrowing power) and it could never happen again. I'm wondering what will happen when the flow of borrowed money gets cut off to our government. Then the Great Depression won't be so great anymore as we are getting ready to wrap up the greatest Ponzi scheme ever devised (aside from non-stop population growth of course). ---------- 2/17/09 = Hogzilla bill was signed = THE POINT OF NO RETURN = Cheers to the Reset, LONG LIVE THE UNDERGROUND ECONOMY! STARVE the BEAST! Adopt a J6P.
2008-02-04 10:10:07
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71391 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
The money doesn't get cut off Guy, it just gets very expensive. This ultimately forces the repudiation of "implied" guarantees - like entitlement programs. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-02-04 10:11:08
Permalink | |||
|
Alex2008 Posts: 725 Incept: 2008-01-06
Banned
|
Genesis, If I understand what you are saying correctly, the banks either have to come up with the $50 billion in "hard money" necessary to pay back the Fed or the Fed has to keep rolling over the $50 billion in TAF every 2 months. However, this does not mean that the banks are necessarily insolvent because theoretically they may have sufficient Tier 1 capital to cover their losses (or they may not). However, if the banks are unable, in the very near future, to make a market in their held for investment portfolios such that they can put these loans back in their for sale portfolios and sell then them off (other than in fire sale conditions) then the banks will be unable to pay off their TAFs putting extreme pressure on the Fed to continue rolling over the TAFs. However, the rolling over of the TAFs merely serves to further undermine trust between the banks as their investment portfolios continue to deteriorate and they are forced to take further write offs against their balance sheets, thereby, further reducing available Tier 1 capital. Consequently, the banks will be unable to initiate additional lending leading to a potential deflationary collapse. Is there anything I am missing?
2008-02-04 10:15:57
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71391 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
That's pretty much correct. Essentially, the last two months' worth of debt initiation has all been done on the back of the TAF - The Fed has replaced private "hard money" as the source for the reserves necessary to back that credit. The problem with this is that you can't keep doing it for very long - the amount of money involved gets totally out of hand and so does The Fed's balance sheet. The Bond market will simply not allow this to continue; it can and will react to this in a decidedly negative way. Note that divergences are all over the bond market lately - it is already reacting to this problem. Bernanke's foolhardy bull**** about "helicopter drops" of liquidity are all fine and well in a university environment, but fail in the real world, because Bernanke can't control the bond market. When the Bond Market detects (as it has) that The Fed is the source of all current lending, and has been for the last two months, it starts to price in the potential for backstops (literal ones) for defaults in the Treasury Complex. This is why, with the market down today, you have the TNX actually UP - it should be the other way around as people flee "into" bonds as the market declines, but its not happening. Likewise, that 6% on the day 'rocket shot' in the TNX was due to the same phenomena. Note that rolling over the TAF doesn't help - the TAF would have to continually increase in size, as each new loan requires new money behind it. That of course cannot continue for very long because Government doesn't create anything - money creation - true money creation - is in fact caused by productive output. Yet the government creates nothing - it expends, not creates. The wall in this scheme approaches at an extreme rate of speed, and the impact, if and when it occurs, will be extremely messy. The Bond market will effectively force the end of TAF expansion, and it appears it already has - The Fed has said they will roll over existing TAF loans, but note that they haven't announced any expansion of the TAF. Why not? Because Ben knows that if the 10 does a rocket shot they're ****ed - mortgage costs go way up instead of down, as do all other long-term sources of money (e.g. LBOs, CRE, etc) This totally negates what he's trying to do. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-02-04 10:22:57
Permalink | |||
|
Alex2008 Posts: 725 Incept: 2008-01-06
Banned
|
And additionally isn't there the problem that the more that is added to the total TAF, the riskier the collateral is that the Fed has to accept from the banks. And the greater the possibility that one of the member banks will eventually default on the TAF, thereby, forcing the Fed to eat bad debt. And if the Fed starts eating bad debt then game over.
2008-02-04 10:28:21
Permalink | |||
|
Yal Posts: 3544 Incept: 2007-06-27
|
Gen re-read. many good points. Didn't we have this starting in Aug ? and at some point they were able to absorb back all this liquidity they put in. Now they are doing it via TAF and you are right this will need to continually increase in size unless new source of capital is found. Don't they just hope that with all this noise the market for real estate and others will start heating up again creating more velocity for hard money which will be enough to get the credit market rolling again ? They are buying time. that is all. it may work or it may not. as long as it does not work they will have to increase the pumping. until when ? Last modified:
2008-02-04 10:38:12 by yal
| |||
| Top | Forum Top | Login | Control Panel | Logout |
| Showing Page 1 of 2  | First | 1 | 2 | Last |