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User Info Open Letter To The FDIC Ombudsman in forum [Ticker]
Genesis
Posts: 71432
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
KD^2
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/894-Op....

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-23 12:59:48
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Lurkn
Posts: 707
Incept: 2007-08-27
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I think that is the way they had it planned, and had hoped no one would figure it out.

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That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government,
STARVING THE BEAST &
BLEEDING THE BEAST

Last modified: 2009-03-23 13:06:06 by lurkn

2009-03-23 13:05:33
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Lunatic_fringe
Posts: 5706
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Location: Terra Firma
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This whole thing reeks of backdoor dealings. What's stopping a bank with bad assets to make a non-recourse loan to some hedgie to bid up the asset price? How would we ever know?

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2009-03-23 13:06:04
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 3930
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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see my letter to my congressman posted elsewhere.

Thanks Karl great ticker- generally you have insight that is thought provoking and most likely was something not seen prior by the mainstream. Not so much so this time I hope. I had this figured out a long time ago and don't consider myself the smartest man in the room.

My thoughts are that the Hedgies should have to waive the nonrecourse part in a penalty type fashion if it is proven to be a non arms-length transaction.

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"These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"


2009-03-23 13:07:42
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Weezie
Posts: 3601
Incept: 2008-05-19
A True American Patriot!
Obama's personal message to the American people...
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Actually, KD, it would take a lot to convince me that this WASN'T the plan all along.

Reminds me of the Merrill Lynch/ Lone Star deal...

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Do not write below this line.
2009-03-23 13:08:44
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Aliveh
Posts: 2610
Incept: 2008-01-18

Los Angeles
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Just another circle-jerk to prop up the PDs so they can keep buying treasuries.

2009-03-23 13:09:44
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Reza30
Posts: 233
Incept: 2009-02-15
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Paul Krugman echos some of Karl's points.

Quote:
Why was I so quick to condemn the Geithner plan? Because it’s not new; it’s just another version of an idea that keeps coming up and keeps being refuted. It’s basically a thinly disguised version of the same plan Henry Paulson announced way back in September. To understand the issue, let me offer some background.

Start with the question: how do banks fail? A bank, broadly defined, is any institution that borrows short and lends long. Like any leveraged investor, a bank can fail if it has made bad investments — if the value of its assets falls below the value of its liabilities, bye bye bank.

But banks can also fail even if they haven’t been bad investors: if, for some reason, many of those they’ve borrowed from (e.g., but not only, depositors) demand their money back at once, the bank can be forced to sell assets at fire sale prices, so that assets that would have been worth more than liabilities in normal conditions end up not being enough to cover the bank’s debts. And this opens up the possibility of a self-fulfilling panic: people may demand their money back, not because they think the bank has made bad investments, but simply because they think other people will demand their money back.

Bank runs can be contagious; partly that’s for psychological reasons, partly because banks tend to invest in similar assets, so one bank’s fire sale depresses another bank’s net worth.

So now we have a bank crisis. Is it the result of fundamentally bad investment, or is it because of a self-fulfilling panic?

If you think it’s just a panic, then the government can pull a magic trick: by stepping in to buy the assets banks are selling, it can make banks look solvent again, and end the run. Yippee! And sometimes that really does work.

But if you think that the banks really, really have made lousy investments, this won’t work at all; it will simply be a waste of taxpayer money. To keep the banks operating, you need to provide a real backstop — you need to guarantee their debts, and seize ownership of those banks that don’t have enough assets to cover their debts; that’s the Swedish solution, it’s what we eventually did with our own S&Ls.

Now, early on in this crisis, it was possible to argue that it was mainly a panic. But at this point, that’s an indefensible position. Banks and other highly leveraged institutions collectively made a huge bet that the normal rules for house prices and sustainable levels of consumer debt no longer applied; they were wrong. Time for a Swedish solution.

But Treasury is still clinging to the idea that this is just a panic attack, and that all it needs to do is calm the markets by buying up a bunch of troubled assets. Actually, that’s not quite it: the Obama administration has apparently made the judgment that there would be a public outcry if it announced a straightforward plan along these lines, so it has produced what Yves Smith calls “a lot of bells and whistles to finesse the fact that the government will wind up paying well above market for

Why am I so vehement about this? Because I’m afraid that this will be the administration’s only shot — that if the first bank plan is an abject failure, it won’t have the political capital for a second. So it’s just horrifying that Obama — and yes, the buck stops there — has decided to base his financial plan on the fantasy that a bit of financial hocus-pocus will turn the clock back to 2006.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03....

2009-03-23 13:12:07
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Baldy
Posts: 6555
Incept: 2008-05-16

Pittsburgh
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Well done Karl.

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FY2011 Budget - Hist'l Tables (PDF 2.0 MB) http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/hist.pdf 1996-2011 budgets: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/browse.html
2009-03-23 13:13:17
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Barnaby33
Posts: 522
Incept: 2007-07-24

San Diego
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If the bid isn't rigged the institutions are going to have to realize insolvency, especially citi, which is why the govt is engaging in all this fraud. Ergo the bidding has to be rigged.

The losses have been made. All we are arguing over is who gets the bill.
Josh

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Short taglines rule!
2009-03-23 13:14:10
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Margincalltime
Posts: 830
Incept: 2008-04-01

NJ
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Didn't see this until after the fact:

From: redacted at do.treas.gov

Date: Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 8:19 AM

Subject: TODAY at 10am: Conference Call with Senior Treasury Officials


As a leading blogger the Treasury Department would like to invite you to join Senior Treasury Officials today, Monday March 23, at 10:00a.m. Eastern Time for an update and discussion of the Administration's Financial Stability Plan to stabilize our financial system and ensure that it is able to provide the credit consumers and businesses need to support economic recovery and a return to growth.

Dial Information:

US/Canada Dial-in #: ( 888 ) 828 - 1821

Conference ID # 91852326

I imagine you didn't get this? Wish I saw it sooner.

2009-03-23 13:14:45
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Genesis
Posts: 71432
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
KD^2
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Nope, didn't... unfortunately.

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-23 13:21:31
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Kuhio
Posts: 206
Incept: 2008-12-31
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KD, I believe you have various Congressional members reading and studying your essays. I think your energy might be better served providing a primer for those who wish to take the initiative in reclaiming democratic control.

Brad Sherman basically confessed that Paulson was able to intimidate Congress last fall because Representatives simply did not have the necessary subject matter expertise in which to challenge his authority and refute his dire warnings of imminent collapse.

We are past the panic stage - thanks to your efforts, many have come up to speed on the core basics. It needs to be declared far & wide that the PPIP plan is nothing more than an extra-executive level attempt to circumvent the democratic process.

Rather than attack & criticize the usual suspects (ie Fed, Treasury, et al), it might be best to just elevate the whole matter to address the fundamental question as to exactly WHO has the legal & moral authority over the country's resources.

Last modified: 2009-03-23 13:31:07 by kuhio

2009-03-23 13:28:40
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 16
Incept: 2008-12-22
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The Legacy Loans Program will facilitate the creation of individual Public-Private Investment Funds which will purchase asset pools on a discrete basis.

Discrete means that they are not going to tell you who bought the assets! Why is the secrecy necessary???

Side-by-Side Investment with Qualified Fund Managers: Treasury will approve up to five asset managers with a demonstrated track record of purchasing legacy assets though we may consider adding more depending on the quality of applications received.

So there will be "up to five" entities bidding for the assets and we are not going to be told who they are!!!" Does up to five mean three? four? two?

The fund manager commences the sales process for the investment fund and is able to raise $100 of private capital for the fund. Treasury provides $100 equity co-investment on a side-by-side basis with private capital and will provide a $100 loan to the Public-Private Investment Fund. Treasury will also consider requests from the fund manager for an additional loan of up to $100 to the fund.

So while the headline is a one on one match for capital, it is clear that the government will not only match the $100 but make available up to $300 for the $100 private capital.

So here is the headline example.

Step 4: Of this $84 purchase price, the FDIC would provide guarantees for $72 of financing, leaving $12 of equity.
Step 5: The Treasury would then provide 50% of the equity funding required on a side-by-side basis with the investor. In this example, Treasury would invest approximately $6, with the private investor contributing $6.

Yet when we read the fine print it could be $72 FDIC loan, $9 from the treasury and $3 from the private investor!

Here is what I previously read about the FDIC loan...

F.D.I.C. will provide nonrecourse loans — that is, loans that are secured only by the value of the mortgage assets being bought — worth up to 85 percent of the value of a portfolio of troubled assets.

Nonrecourse means that if the deal does not work out, the private investor can just hand the package back to the FDIC!

Worse, they could cherry pick the assets out of the package and return the rest.

THIS HAS ALL THE MAKINGS OF A SWEET DEAL FOR A VERY SELECT FEW, WHO WILL BE UNNAMED DUE TO THE DISCRETE PART OF THE DEAL. IN OTHER WORDS THERE WILL BE NO TRANSPARANCY TO THESE TRANSACTIONS.

Do you think this is a sweet deal for the taxpayer, or a sweet deal for a select few?


2009-03-23 13:39:21
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Fortune
Posts: 1455
Incept: 2008-04-21
A deep dark place...scary
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AND this scheme from Naked Capitalism

Say I am SAC Capital. I get to be one of the bidders on bank assets covered by the program

Citi holds $100mm of face-value securities, carried at $80mm.

The market bid on these securities is $30mm. Say with perfect foresight the value of all cash flows is $50mm.

I bid Citi $75mm. I put up $2.25mm or 3%, Treasury funds the rest.

I then buy $10mm in CDS directly from Citi [or another participant (BOA, GS, etc)] on the bonds for a premium of $1mm.

In the fullness of time, we get the final outcome, the bonds are worth $50mm

SAC loses $2.25mm of principal, but gets $9mm net in CDS proceeds, so recovers $6.75mm on a $2.25mm investment. Profit is $4.5mm

Citi writes down $5mm from the initial sale of the securities, and a $9mm CDS loss. Total loss, $14mm (against a potential $30mm loss without the program)

U.S. Treasury loses $22.75mm

Great program.

It's just a scheme to transfer losses from the bank to the taxpayer with an egregious payout to a middleman (SAC) to effectively money launder the transaction.

You've also transmuted a $30mm economic loss into a $36.75mm economic loss because of the laundering. So its incredibly inefficient.

How did fraud and money laundering become the national economic policy of the US?

One would have to be a criminal to participate in this.

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It's a toss up.
It is the Rule of Law that transforms assets into money: Martin Armstrong
Math IS: Karl Denninger

2009-03-23 13:51:31
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Margincalltime
Posts: 830
Incept: 2008-04-01

NJ
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I'd like to go "long" bezzle. If someone finds a good way to do that, please let me know. It seems like the upside is infinite...

2009-03-23 13:58:52
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Patentleathershoes
Posts: 7642
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Looking forward to PB&J time!
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Quote:
If the bid isn't rigged the institutions are going to have to realize insolvency, especially citi, which is why the govt is engaging in all this fraud. Ergo the bidding has to be rigged.


That's how I see it. Especially considering Fortune's example above.

2009-03-23 14:00:57
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Wisc-xc
Posts: 4828
Incept: 2007-07-14

outside chicago
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They finally got their ducks in a row, which is why they finally, after all this time, decided to go through with this bull****. If that means some form of putative bid rigging then so much the better. Like Mish said, competitive bidding from private capital alone will largely lead to overpricing all by itself given the sweetheart govt backstop. Thus I'm not sure we need a backdoor to get inflated values.

2009-03-23 14:14:47
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Genesis
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KD^2
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Hedge funds aren't known for intentionally throwing their money down the toilet, no matter what small percentage it is.

Gambling, yes. That's fine from my point of view.

What's not fine is bid-rigging.

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-23 14:21:17
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Txdomer
Posts: 968
Incept: 2007-11-07

Ding-dong, the Fed is dead!
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Quote:
The rest is covered by Treasury, The Fed and the FDIC via guaranteed bond issuance.


Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can the buyer (the bank) really issue bonds to itself?

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"Economics is not practiced as a science. Rather, it is a pretentious way to covertly promote political prejudices."

- Fred Harrison
http://renegadeeconomist.com

Last modified: 2009-03-23 14:24:56 by txdomer

2009-03-23 14:24:08
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Genesis
Posts: 71432
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KD^2
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The FDIC issues the bonds to raise the funds.

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-23 14:24:59
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Txdomer
Posts: 968
Incept: 2007-11-07

Ding-dong, the Fed is dead!
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From the Public-Private Investment Program Fact Sheet, http://financialstability.gov :

Quote:
If the seller accepts the purchase price, the buyer would receive financing by issuing debt guaranteed by the FDIC. The FDIC-guaranteed debt would be collateralized by the purchased assets and the FDIC would receive a fee in return for its guarantee.


What am I missing?


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"Economics is not practiced as a science. Rather, it is a pretentious way to covertly promote political prejudices."

- Fred Harrison
http://renegadeeconomist.com
2009-03-23 14:30:20
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Genesis
Posts: 71432
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KD^2
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Nothing. The FDIC is the ultimate issuer as its the guarantor.

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-23 14:30:51
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Mrbill
Posts: 1733
Incept: 2008-10-19

LA
Online
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Who buys the newly issued FDIC-insured debt? Is that yet more private money? If that's the case, then it's not really just 3% private money making this happen?

2009-03-23 14:40:56
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Genesis
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KD^2
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True, but that private money is not at risk.

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-03-23 14:46:37
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Lastchance
Posts: 1132
Incept: 2008-11-19
Las Vegas
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Not that pesky "bid-rigging" again.

Didn't some firm(s) get sanctioned for that some years ago regarding Treasury auctions?

No reason to name names here; it can easily be researched.

The game goes on regardless. But it is nice to see folks catch on the same day.

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"We don't quit. I don't quit" President Obama 1/27/10

Man, I would to have him in one of our poker games.
2009-03-23 14:52:09
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