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User Info Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave.... in forum [Ticker]
Genesis
Posts: 71432
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
KD^2
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/690-Oh....

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-12-16 08:30:40
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Truthseeker
Posts: 2016
Incept: 2007-10-07
A True American Patriot!
NW US
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Well said, Gen.

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"The real leech****s are not the welfare people, but the paper shufflers in privileged positions who are skimming the money flows."
"
~ Bozonian
2008-12-16 08:36:34
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Loudoungroup
Posts: 2845
Incept: 2008-02-01

San Antonio, TX
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Good stuff. I will admit that Obama has quickly made me feel through his cabinet, treasury, and advisor picks that the pillage not only will continue, but may accelerate.

I honestly don't think he has a clue.


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http://caps.fool.com/player/loudoungroup.aspx
2008-12-16 08:58:07
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 3930
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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He could dare to be great. I think the cances are slim.

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"These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"


Last modified: 2008-12-16 09:06:35 by themortgagedude

2008-12-16 09:05:57
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Madashel
Posts: 577
Incept: 2007-09-14
A True American Patriot!
West Texas
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Thanks, Gen, I always enjoy reading your tickers. They are very refreshing and are always loaded with common sense and truthfulness.

I have zero faith in Obama or anyone else in the fed gov for that matter. You think it's bad now, I bet by the end of 2009 America will be in such bad shape it will make what we are in now seem like the "good old days". You can say goodbye to what remains of our constitutional rights and "free market" (I use that term very loosely these days) system. We have already seen that those in power don't give a rat's ass what we think...I'm sure that is not going to "change".

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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
"It is better to live for something rather than die for nothing." - George S. Patton
2008-12-16 09:23:25
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Gen_maximus57
Posts: 2263
Incept: 2007-09-03

Miami
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Brilliant

Obama is no more the answer -- the problem is too big, it's nearly the entire congress that is the problem

But in reality it's just the reflection of an uneducated voting public (Democracy cannot survive when every idiot is entitled to a vote)

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Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper.
2008-12-16 09:43:38
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Trades50
Posts: 1145
Incept: 2007-10-30

IL
Online
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A master of logic and words!

The biggest Ponzi scheme scheme yet to blow up. Social Security. Now all the baby boomers are starting to retire.

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Labor for the Globalist: World Class means Third World Class.
2008-12-16 09:48:15
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 3930
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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Social security wasn't the problem. It was not saving the deposits.

Anybody can take deposits. Keeping the deposits is the most important thing.

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"These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"


2008-12-16 11:43:23
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Genesis
Posts: 71432
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
KD^2
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Actually, TMD, it is.

Demographics dude.

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-12-16 11:44:06
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 3930
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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If we would have saved the deposits we would be OK. Instead we spent them. I've seen the math. Doesn't matter now. And math I saw did not cover medical.

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"These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"


2008-12-16 11:55:40
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Genesis
Posts: 71432
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
KD^2
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Saving the deposits only extends the bad news, it doesn't change it.

You can't have 2 people working for 1 drawing and have the numbers work.

Most people died before they reached elegibility when SS was implemented. That made the program "work" in that it was (mostly) about survivor's benefits; most people failed to draw significant retirement benefits from it.

This is no longer true; if we had indexed benefit elegibility to life expectancy from inception the program was sustainable, but without that, its not.

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-12-16 11:57:42
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Gatearrayed
Posts: 594
Incept: 2007-06-27

Morristown, NJ
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the gravy train finally crashes into deflation spiral.

madoff as metaphor.

sweet.

2008-12-16 11:58:10
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Aja
Posts: 2209
Incept: 2008-03-19
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Madoff's boys had no idea. Neither did anyone else in the organization.
Right.

2008-12-16 12:04:49
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 3930
Incept: 2007-12-17

saint louis
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Hell why like Madoff up - its all a Ponzi scheme.

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"These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"


2008-12-16 12:11:28
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Krisb
Posts: 163
Incept: 2008-05-04

Vancouver BC. Canada
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I don't understand why everybody picks at Madoff, the entire world financial system over the last 25 years was one gigantic Ponzi scam.

Karl, here is another guy thinking along your lines:

http://us1.institutionalriskanalytics.co....



"On the Prime Solution: Interview with Eric Hovde
December 11, 2008

Lesson 1: Central banks have learned that their knowledge of current and prospective developments of the economy is incomplete. They cannot know all that they would need to know to operate a perfect, large-scale model of the economy all of the time. The data they use are subject to repeated revisions, even for retrospective data, so the actions they decide to take are hedged because of uncertainty. As a result, especially since the disinflation of the early 1980s, central banks have tended to take small policy action steps. Because of lags in the effects of monetary policy action on the economy, central banks prefer to wait until an effect can be observed in the real world before taking further policy steps. The lesson here is central bank prudence in the magnitude and frequency of policy rate changes. This prudence ordinarily leads central banks to avoid aggressive and pre-emptive measures. Their knowledge is too uncertain to support big steps.

"Why a Dual Mandate is Wrong for Monetary Policy"
Anna J. Schwartz and Walker F. Todd
International Finance, 11:2, 2008

Since the last issue of The IRA was published, AIG (NYSE:AIG) discovered another $9 billion or so in unfunded liabilities, apparently linked to credit default swaps. The Fed began to sound out members of Congress about issuing debt. And the Governor of Illinois was arrested for a variety of felonies, including trying to profit from the sale of the Senate seat of President-elect Barack Obama.

We'd like to tell you that the US political system has reached a new low, but really we're reverting back to the pre-WWI norm of chaos and political corruption. For over a century Americans have convinced themselves that economic and political stability are givens no matter how stupid we as a nation act when it comes to matters of money.

That's why we believe that the new President needs to reconsider the composition of his economic team before the ravages of deflation do even more damage to the economy and public confidence. The future of the US economy stands on the edge of a knife. If the Obama inside circle does not start putting some new, competent faces in positions of authority in the economic team, the global economy could be locked into years of stagflation and US government could be in serious trouble next year, unable to fund itself."

2008-12-16 12:36:00
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Zanni-baby
Posts: 922
Incept: 2007-11-09
A True American Patriot!
the Valley
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KD- Thank you for your sentiment. This Madoff Massacre is the new initiative called HARP: namely the Hedgefunds way of getting access to the bailouts, per the big money for their own individual "ASSET RELIEF PROGRAM". Our government is so screwed up, it will cost the taxpayers billions to catch these guys at their game--and there are so many fronts to take, as you mention, that is abombinable.

My sentiment in this season: listen to lots and lots of Christmas music, and keep it simple. And SING!!!

Indeed, we are in the calm of the storm now, and time to gather your strength. Post Holiday will be grim : (

LOL KD! Your a star in my sky! And may you and your lovely family have a wonderful time together.

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As for all the Banksters-It's all said in one word: GOUT!
2008-12-16 12:54:45
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Ksfq
Posts: 1017
Incept: 2007-07-11

California
Online
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I think that Obama, as leader, just needs to point and address the underlying issue: it became acceptable that one can do all kinds of wrong and immoral actions as long as they are legal; and it is ok to do illegal things if one thinks that he/she is not going to get caught.
Before, these things were reserved for criminals.

I'm not sure how this can be done, but I'm sure a lot of these things would never happen, if people in power are better indoctrinated about right and wrong.


2008-12-16 13:00:13
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Joe-bob
Posts: 1805
Incept: 2007-09-18

Online
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Simply put, the skimmers who were also supposed to be facilitators and managers stopped skimming and started scalping.

You can only plunder instead of husband your resources for so long before the effects are felt. This is why we have particular nursery rhymes, aesop's fables and so on to teach our kids - many of them have some practical lesson, like the one about the man killing the goose that laid the golden egg. So easy a child can understand the lesson, but we've got scalpers killing the goose anyway. Even the ones who get away with it will be poorer for having done it - because of the world they will have created in the process - one that they will then have to live in.

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écrasez l'infâme -Voltaire
To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is barbarity. —Robespierre
"The foundation of their institutions must be broken up and relaid, or all our blood and treasure have been spent in vain" - Thaddeus Stevens
2008-12-16 13:22:12
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Pauperbear
Posts: 1407
Incept: 2008-01-22

norwalk, ct
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KD, you have long talked about an ad in a major US paper...the jist of this ticker should be it...

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The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
Winston Churchill

2008-12-16 13:25:50
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Stormsailor1981
Posts: 8449
Incept: 2007-06-26
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jeez people, get a grip. morality,honor,integrity............. these traits have been actually punished by our society for the last 40 years. the flip side of this punishment is that these are the bedrock upon which society rest. so get ready for the bedrock to crack open with volcanic force.

i have a feeling that after the, "rupture" only those with these traits will do well.

2008-12-16 13:32:27
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Fredocal
Posts: 65
Incept: 2008-08-14

New York, NY
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My one hope for Obama is that when SHTF, he'll have the ability to put down the shovel and stop digging. I get the sense he's intelligent enough to understand that stability will be threatened unless he changes course and tells those who created this mess to play in traffic.

2008-12-16 13:34:42
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Grody
Posts: 1595
Incept: 2008-02-19
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Quote:
...one should note that a number of people interviewed said they figured Madoff was "cheating" since he was a market maker and had returns they couldn't explain - they just didn't think he was cheating them!

It's a variation of the old country boy saying, "I don't mind a cheat, as long as I'm in on it."

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Pain is weakness leaving the body. Bulls need more pain NOW.

Last modified: 2008-12-16 13:44:40 by grody

2008-12-16 13:42:13
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Nirvan45
Posts: 1578
Incept: 2007-10-31

florida
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"We can't kick the can down the road any longer. The mathematics do not lie and can no longer be ignored. The longer we continue to deny and kick the can the worse the destruction will be in our economy, employment and capital markets"

Welcome to the club, kicking can down the road will continue.
24 hours after election I come to conclusion that obama election is no change, you may say I jumped the gun by satating it that early, we shall see.
As to all you have called, there will be no change, because the outcome is hardship and people in this country are not used to it, til of course they can't kick the can, but by then we are looking another 6 to 7 yrs

2008-12-16 13:57:28
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Joe-bob
Posts: 1805
Incept: 2007-09-18

Online
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Here we go:

Quote:
Madoff Scheme Was ‘Impossible’ to Do Alone, Says EIM’s Busson
Email | Print | A A A

By Tom Cahill and Stephanie Baker

Dec. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Bernard Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme, which might have cost investors $50 billion, couldn’t have been carried out alone, said Arpad ‘Arki’ Busson, chairman and founder of Swiss investment firm EIM SA.

“For the amount of money and number of accounts, it’s practically impossible that he was doing this alone,” said Busson, whose $11.5 billion fund of hedge funds had about $230 million invested with Madoff. “What’s mind-boggling is the amount of assets and the amount of time he was doing it.”

EIM, which manages accounts for mostly institutional clients, invested with funds that had managed accounts overseen by Madoff. EIM will likely write down its stake to zero, Busson said. Madoff was arrested Dec. 11 after he told his sons that Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC was a fraud, according to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

“There’s only so much due diligence you can do, and in hindsight you always wish you could have done it differently,” Busson said in a telephone interview. “Catching a fraud like this is practically impossible. He seemed like a very experienced, knowledgeable and trustworthy man, like the best con artists always are.”

About two-thirds of EIM accounts had no holdings with Madoff, while no single account had more than 5 percent, Busson said. EIM, based in Nyon, Switzerland, gained comfort with Madoff because one of the feeder funds produced a statement of accounts that showed “every trade” and that was audited by PricewaterhouseCoopers, Busson said.

Not From ‘Boondocks’

Madoff’s history showed he was “not someone from the boondocks,” Busson said. Madoff had been head of the trading committee at the Securities Industry Association, Wall Street’s biggest trade group, and served as chairman of the Nasdaq Stock Market, advising on new stock-market rules in response to the growth of electronic trading.

Unlike most hedge funds, Madoff’s business was regulated by the SEC, giving investors an added layer of protection, Busson said.

“I knew the SEC was all over this shop. As a broker-dealer, you file quarterly statements,” he said. “The main reason we got comfort is that it was SEC-regulated, and it was doing 10 percent of the volume on the New York Stock Exchange and Nasdaq.”

Madoff ran his investment advisory business from a separate floor of his firm’s New York offices, keeping financial statements “under lock and key,” prosecutors said. Early in December, he told one employee that clients wanted to redeem about $7 billion and that he was struggling to free up the funds, the government said.

Reduced Stake

EIM was in the process of “trimming back” its holdings with Madoff when the fraud came to light, Busson said. He thought an employee was joking when he called and said Madoff had been arrested, Busson said.

The complexity and duration of the fraud made it unlikely that he could have operated it alone, particularly because Madoff took vacations, he said.

Busson said he last saw Madoff in July at an airport in Nice, on France’s Mediterranean coast.

To contact the reporter on this story: Tom Cahill in London at tcahill@bloomberg.net; Stephanie Baker in London at stebaker@bloomberg.net.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2....

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écrasez l'infâme -Voltaire
To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is barbarity. —Robespierre
"The foundation of their institutions must be broken up and relaid, or all our blood and treasure have been spent in vain" - Thaddeus Stevens
2008-12-16 16:35:07
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Noodleman
Posts: 759
Incept: 2008-11-01
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The only thing that will change under Barry O are the d****s in the White House. He didn't climb the food chain ladder by being a 'change agent'. Until we get rid of the 2-party system we're doomed.

2008-12-16 17:39:55
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