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| User Info | Obama Care: We Cannot Afford It in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1110-O....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-06-11 09:00:48
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Jpg Posts: 41 Incept: 2009-03-23 MI
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Quote:$2.276 trillion dollars. For perspective, that's roughly $7500 for every man, woman and child in the country. $30,000 for every family of four.
2009-06-11 09:09:08
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Mo Posts: 5502 Incept: 2007-06-26 
Florida Online
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A friend's 90 year old mother (in very good health) was recently told by her doctor that he was 'opting out' of Medicare and going into a practice with a group of doctors that she could have access to for only $1600/year. He told her she would get 'better care'. How many other doctors are positioning themselves to escape Obamacare? When he's ready to start, no one will be able to get an appointment with the 3 doctors who haven't opted out. ---------- "The World has been cancelled. It doesn't even look like the world. There is one island that is maintained and is said to be owned by the Sheikh and the rest looks like a pile of muck."
2009-06-11 09:12:50
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Grf Posts: 489 Incept: 2008-12-08 Online
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A perspective I've been using with liberals is by saying "If Obama hadn't blown trillions by letting the Feds hand it out to his bankster friends, we could have HAD universal healthcare by now!" Gets 'em in a tizzy. :)
2009-06-11 09:15:42
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Wearedoomed Posts: 904 Incept: 2009-01-14
Petra
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Grf wrote..A perspective I've been using with liberals is by saying "If Obama hadn't blown trillions by letting the Feds hand it out to his bankster friends, we could have HAD universal healthcare by now!" Gets 'em in a tizzy. :)    
---------- The shrewdest of the great generals in China's history once said that perfection in war lay in so sapping the opponent's will that he surrenders without fighting.
2009-06-11 09:19:34
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Csgreen Posts: 201 Incept: 2008-02-25 
TX
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I know you like to keep things squeaky clean here, but I would be interested in your opinion on the "why" of this (bond mrket) as everyone from obama on down can do math and have to know how this ends. They recieved their warning and it's full speed ahead-I just don't get it! (aside from an intentionally engineered all-out collapse and reset)
2009-06-11 09:22:34
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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CS: Go ask Clinton. He thought he could get away with it too. The warnings were ignored, and then the bond market kicked him in the balls. THAT got his attention. So it will be this time too. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-06-11 09:27:03
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Arrack979 Posts: 1271 Incept: 2008-07-15
Blue State Hell
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But, But health care is one of my "rights".
---------- Cash IS a position, just like fetal and reverse cowgirl
2009-06-11 09:35:00
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Tesla Posts: 8181 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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You need to include the absolute waste that is all the unnecessary testing forced by doctors by the very real threat of medical malpractice lawsuits, and the gross expense to doctors/insurers of defending many very frivolous lawsuits.
---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-06-11 09:35:04
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Tesla, that's a strawman. Yes, it contributes at the margin, but its not the cause. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-06-11 09:36:43
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Bozonian Posts: 14033 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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Green, you give them too much credit. These are ELECTED officials. They have been given the authority to make decisions in areas where they have little or no experience or skill. This is the problem with a massive central government. The further you are separated from the problem, both geographically and in your knowledge, the worst your decisions become. This is not really a slight on them, no human being could possibly be expert in all things. But they should realize further consolidation of power in Washington to a few brains is begging for more problems. Some of these senators and congressmen don't even know that the dollar isn't backed by gold anymore! ---------- I'm so depressed about outsourcing I called the suicide hotline and got a call center in Pakistan. They got all excited and asked me if I could drive a truck. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice. Last modified:
2009-06-11 09:43:13 by bozonian
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Trades50 Posts: 1144 Incept: 2007-10-30
IL Online
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Back in 2001 I recalled the government playing with the statistics and propagating lies until their "free money" for real estate got traction. They finally were able to inflate housing. Their trying to inflate the general economy again. They will keep playing the money games again. In the mean time many companies (my wife's) and a friend's are still sending jobs to India and China. My friend's company is shipping 400 engineer jobs to China. This French parent company will not lay off any of it's French employees. They know Americans are easy to lay off. My wife's about 150 technical jobs are being sent to India. Zebra technologies just announced it was sending it's manufacturing to China. Jobs/wealth will continue to be shipped over until our currency and living standards adjust lower. ---------- Labor for the Globalist: World Class means Third World Class.
2009-06-11 09:59:40
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Tesla Posts: 8181 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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While I agree that tort issues are not the MAJOR cause of huge medical expenses, it's certainly not a strawman. There's significant costs involved. Every bit of waste wrung out of the system helpshelps, and this is a large, altho certainly not the largest component by any measure. http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insur.... Quote:A February 2006 study, prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers for America’s Health Insurance Plans, examined the factors contributing to rising healthcare costs and analyzed where the healthcare dollar goes. It found that medical liability costs and defensive medicine account for 10 percent of medical care costs. Defensive medicine is when doctors order more tests, prescribe more medication and make more referrals than they believe are necessary to protect themselves from being accused of negligence. The study, “The Factors Fueling Rising Healthcare Costs 2006,” also estimates that health insurance premiums rose 8.8 percent between 2004 and 2005. ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-06-11 10:12:27
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Go ahead and focus on things that will not make a difference if you want; this is, however, how you butt**** yourself. Don't say you weren't warned. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-06-11 10:17:37
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Torgo Posts: 389 Incept: 2009-01-14
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Seems to me that having Health Insurance to pay for daily health care (i.e. medicine, routine doctor visits) makes about as much sense as having Food Insurance to pay for your daily food needs.
2009-06-11 10:27:14
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Lb Posts: 1116 Incept: 2007-09-04 Houston
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We need to do away with some other socialized systems as well. For instance law enforcement. We can privatize those and develop entirely new growth industries for private security forces, and develop entirely forms of insurance. We can all wear some kind of badge or arm band, so these security forces know who they are covering. God knows I'm sick and tired of my tax dollars being wasted because someone else decides to report a crime. ---------- Attention Karl: You let the moonbats take over TF.
2009-06-11 10:32:38
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Tesla Posts: 8181 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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It shouldn't be a primary focus, but...is 10% not significant ? If reforms are considered, shouldn't this be among them ? Or do we just ignore this and hope to deal with it later ? I'm interested in your reasoning on this, because in my experience, you only get the chance once to make a difference, and when a program gets opened up for reform, you should try to address as many major components of the problem as you can. ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-06-11 10:34:50
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Csgreen Posts: 201 Incept: 2008-02-25
TX
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Gen, I understand that clinton was stopped in his tracks, my point is- 1.Doesn't the Obama already know this going in and more importantly 2.Isn't Obama being issued his warning now.....and ignoring it (which leads me to question if it is intentional)
2009-06-11 10:44:28
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Goldbrick Posts: 1605 Incept: 2008-01-23
Indiana
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This crew in DC is hell-bent on spending. They're going to spend at least $200M to send 17 GITMO terrorists to the South Pacific. ****ing insane!
---------- "The higher I go, the crookeder it gets." --Michael Corleone
2009-06-11 10:44:37
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Lb Posts: 1116 Incept: 2007-09-04 Houston
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Do we need a post office anymore? Why should we let the government compete with UPS and FEDEX? It is not fair to these private business, they should not have to compete with a government entity. We might as well have price controls on shipping. I'll be *******ned if I have to live somewhere with a socialized form of letter carrying! ---------- Attention Karl: You let the moonbats take over TF.
2009-06-11 10:49:51
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Stoverny Posts: 250 Incept: 2009-02-25
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Quote:As just one example you consume somewhere between 80 and 90% of all health care dollars that you will ever consume in your last year of life. If you do not have the money to pay for this, currently society will pick up the tab. It is in no small part due to this fact that we have the funding problem within Medicare today. I think this is really the heart of the problem. I'd suspect this end-of-life treatment costs far more than malpractice costs and illegal immigrant health care combined. My grandmother, rest her soul, was put through the wringer during her last few months of life. She was 91, and with all the dialysis and surgeries they managed to keep her alive in a hospital bed for about 3 months longer. She was on Medicare. But how do we change a culture that focuses on extending very old and sick patients' lives, regardless of cost? What politician is going to come out and say, "As part of my health-care reform, we will now stop performing expensive life-extending (not life-saving) treatments on your parents and grandparents"?
2009-06-11 10:58:47
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Tesla, solving 80% of any problem is easy. The next 10% is really hard, and the last 10% is ****ing nearly impossible. You want to go after the last 10% first. In doing so you will expend all your political capital and get at best half of the 10% problem resolved, so you will cut 5% off the cost. That will do exactly nothing to the fiscal realities. If you instead whack off the 80% - the last year of life costs along with the illegals - you can then spend whatever political capital you have left on the other 10%. There may be none, and if there is none, so what? Economically, it doesn't matter - you got the majority of the problem and made a real difference. If you can manage to whack off ANOTHER 5%, bully for you. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-06-11 10:59:36
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Stoverny, this is indeed very difficult. But if we don't solve this we solve nothing. Its that simple. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-06-11 11:00:31
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Flyingillini Posts: 2 Incept: 2009-06-09 Reno, NV
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I don't think Obamarx cares if his actions ruin the concept of prosperity in this country. In fact, I believe this is his goal since its not really fair (according to him) that some people have more money, better health care, bigger houses, more cars etc, than others (his constituency). Don't assume he doesn't know what he is doing.
2009-06-11 11:00:40
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Koaj Posts: 957 Incept: 2009-02-03
NJ
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Don't assume he doesn't know what he is doing. -------------- which is very very scary for those of us who have to fund his madness as long as he can get 50.1% of the gen pop on the dole, then theoretically he stays in power as does pelosi, dodd, schumer, kennedy etc
2009-06-11 11:05:55
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