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| User Info | Monday's Sermon - Put The Kids Away in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71412 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.denninger.net/2007/....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2007-09-10 17:39:27
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Uncleoxidant Posts: 1704 Incept: 2007-07-10 Stumptown
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A hearty Amen on that sermon, KD. As a nation we've been pretending to be wealthier than we really are for much too long. We've been doing it by borrowing money from places like China that really don't have our best interests in mind (OK, that's an understatement). Time to go back to living within our means like our grandparents (or great grandparents depending on your age) who went through the depression taught us. Personally, I've hated debt for a long time. I still drive my 20-year-old car. Paid off my house back in '99. Save about 50% of my takehome. But I feel like an endangerd species in this country where borrow-and-spend-spend-spend is the message sent out by everybody from the government to Madison avenue. People, if you're in debt up to your eyeballs and you're HELOC'ed to the hilt, KD is right: you've only got yourself to blame for what's coming. ---------- I am NOT a consumer, I am a Citizen! Last modified:
2007-09-10 18:04:07 by uncleoxidant
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Beachcomber Posts: 543 Incept: 2007-08-20 
California
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Unfortunately we need to A LOT more than just not bailing out housing to give our kids any chance of having anything near the standard of living that we currently enjoy. Real social security reform and actual governmental fiscal responsibility would be a great start but unfortunately, as everyone knows, the biggest drawback of living in a democratic society is that he who promises the most to current voters usually wins the race. I hate to be a fatalist but you need a much bigger pulpit to fix this problem.
2007-09-10 18:13:47
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Genesis Posts: 71412 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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I can't fix it all but we can start here. Every solution begins with biting off one piece of the problem and chewing it up good. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2007-09-10 18:22:07
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Theone Posts: 6865 Incept: 2007-08-07 They crucified the only PERFECT one Banned
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Maybe all you fools are the "Classy" people, unlike my "classless" DEBT FREE hard working highly educated dumb**** redneck ass. **** YOU ******N ******S! You are the ****ING CANCER eating us alive and you think I'm ****ed up. Go look in the ******N MIRROR you worthless LEACH****S, YOU ARE the problem, not throwbacks to society like me. Let's define YOUR view of Class: 1) New fancy cars - purchased on credit 2) Big fancy houses - purchased on credit 3) Nice fancy clothes - purchased on credit 4) Big screen TV's - purchased on credit 5) Membership at the local Golf Course - purchased on credit 6) Fancy furniture - purchased on credit 7) Fancy Spinner Rims - purchased on credit 8) More and More **** - purchased on credit 9) Through out the old **** and get some new **** - purchased on credit 10) Send your kids to ****ass public schools so you can buy some more **** - on credit You're such greedy stingy ****s some of you only gave Karl $10 for all his work. Some others went to Think or Swim so they could get the "Free" ****. Now who's the ******? YOU ARE. DaDaDaDaDaDA How much is the monthly payment? I'll DaDaDaDaDa take it on the EASY payment plan. Does that sound about right for all you "Classy" ****in hypocrites out there? Kiss my REDNECK DEBT FREE ASS. Now who's laughing at your dumbass. God this is beautiful.....:) Thank you Karl......He who laughs last laughs loudest and the volume in here is so loud I can't hear myself think.... Have a great day idiots!!!!
---------- Let me know when the DENIAL of who runs everything is over. Until then enjoy the circle jerk. I'm going fishing. State of the Union ---> http://www.mindspring.com/~lcruiser/Stat....
2007-09-10 18:27:11
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Stormsailor1981 Posts: 8449 Incept: 2007-06-26 
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preaching to the choir here boss. saw this coming in 90 voted for ross perot because he was the only one talking about social security, entitlements, government debt, and undue legislative influence. of course he was quite easily dealt with by the media as an oddball. i kind of gave up since then. either vote for ass or elephant, both are normaly members of the club before they even get nominated. corporations have run this country since dwight d, and he gave a strong warning to the people in his feeble old age. george washington gave the same warning about political parties. yeah, i'll send letters to dodd,myrick, and the plutocracy, but i've got a horrible feeling its gonna take a lot more than letters to clean up this mess.
2007-09-10 18:41:06
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Genesis Posts: 71412 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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You do it, and tell two friends, and so on and so on and it will make a difference. Remember, they said we wouldn't stop the amnesty bill too. Wrong. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2007-09-10 18:44:16
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Jfedak Posts: 4778 Incept: 2007-06-26
Down in Fraggle Rock
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Wasn't the premarket futures ramp due to the INTC revenue news hitting the wires?
2007-09-10 18:47:38
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Genesis Posts: 71412 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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No.... it started long before that. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2007-09-10 18:50:12
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Rmonical Posts: 2155 Incept: 2007-07-04
Omaha
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Amen. Since I have a house that I want to sell, I'll send an arguing against self interest letter to my senators and representative. For the record, the unfunded Medicare mandate is far more severe than that for Social Security. Somebody mentioned (correctly I think) that some fairly nominal changes can keep Social Security in fiscal balance to the end of the 75 year planning window. That said, we do have the problem that we seem to have spent that SS surplus that we are supposed to have been accumulating for the last 20 years for the boomers. This last point means that future taxes have to be increased or other spending reduced to pay the boomer's SS. One more draconian change not considered in the solvency analysis above is to means test SS. A lot of boomers who have been cynical about the prospects (like me and I suspect KD) and who have been saving like mad, will do OK without social security. Medicare, OTOH, is a completely different animal. Raidical changes need to be made in order to keep it viable. Some of the most difficult changes must focus how we as a country decide to manage the last few weeks/days of life. Should we be paying $10,000 per month for a cancer drug that extends life for three months? Very difficult decisions. ---------- The truth is out there
2007-09-10 18:50:15
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Theone Posts: 6865 Incept: 2007-08-07 They crucified the only PERFECT one Banned
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Storms.... If it makes you feel any better I voted for Perot also. To send a message to all those ****ers. Of course I've been catching hell for it ever since. Funny how we are not suppposed to vote for who "we" want, just vote for whomever someone else wants...then we don't look stupid to them.. **** em, I do what I want....Let's give em hell. ---------- Let me know when the DENIAL of who runs everything is over. Until then enjoy the circle jerk. I'm going fishing. State of the Union ---> http://www.mindspring.com/~lcruiser/Stat....
2007-09-10 18:50:35
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Genesis Posts: 71412 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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The problem with the "solvency" argument is that its all a lie since the entirety of the collected tax base for BOTH has been spent. Ergo, both are insolvent RIGHT NOW - not 20, 30 or 40 years out. Treating those IOUs (which are not bonds by the way - legally, they do not have standing as "debt") as if they were real is yet another fraud. Medicare is actually very simple. During the last year of your life, with that barrier determined by your physician, the government pays for nothing. If you can't pay, you don't get. Exception made for pallative (pain) meds only. Any physician who is wrong about more than 25% of the "last year" certifications he makes loses his ability to write business on Medicare - permanently. This will likely force people onto "self pay" sooner than their last year, but that's ok. The alternative is that we go bankrupt, so its a simple decision really. We have to have an HONEST discussion about these matters in America. We won't so long as people keep demanding "theirs". Fact its, its not theirs - theirs has been spent. Its their KID'S MONEY they're spending - money that hasn't been earned yet. This **** must stop. Those who **** about the cost of the war are ****ing up a tree. Entitlement spending is by far the largest part of the Federal Budget; between that and interest expense (which are the "mandatory" portions) it is enough that the entirety of the rest doesn't really matter all that much. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2007-09-10 18:54:56
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Nomorespin Posts: 1105 Incept: 2007-07-17
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KD, I'm writing a letter to Nancy tonite after I put the kids to bed. If you want to get a "grass roots" campaign going on this, we might need put up a "letter draft" section where people can cut and paste the names of their Senator / Congressman, etc. Lcruiser, you want to write one for me? I'm sure Nancy would love to hear from you.
2007-09-10 18:59:11
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Fafhrd Posts: 571 Incept: 2007-07-17
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Bravo, Karl.
---------- The structure of society is far more fragile than most believe. To set too much faith in its resilience is to know a moment of pristine astonishment at the instant of its utter collapse- before the wolves close in. -Kruppe of Darujhistan
2007-09-10 19:10:08
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Theone Posts: 6865 Incept: 2007-08-07 They crucified the only PERFECT one Banned
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Captian NemoSpin, Dude, I've worked so hard my life to get where I am today, i.e. free from all that political correctness bull****, no way I'm going back to that world, especially with that evil bitch. You're on your own bro...Good luck. I'll write my own letter. :) ---------- Let me know when the DENIAL of who runs everything is over. Until then enjoy the circle jerk. I'm going fishing. State of the Union ---> http://www.mindspring.com/~lcruiser/Stat....
2007-09-10 19:11:53
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Stormsailor1981 Posts: 8449 Incept: 2007-06-26
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please do not allow any bailout of lenders, mortgage companies, banks, or homeowners that chose to accept risk, enjoyed the profits of that risk, and now do not want to accept the consequences of those risk. to do so is a slap in the face of all people that are responsible. not only do i not want my taxes paid for such endeavors but i do not wish to enslave the future of my children with debt. here is a message to use. improve upon it if you like Last modified:
2007-09-10 19:18:15 by stormsailor1981
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Prospektor Posts: 2448 Incept: 2007-07-19
Stockholm, Sweden
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Wouldnt a consumtion tax stop some of this nonsense and get people to save. I disagree (respectfully) on the war stance you have taken Karl, as you already know from my previous post on this matter. WAR is a terrible waste of tax payers money that should be spent on helping the American people. Sorry if I am a bit off topic maybe?? ---------- Mongo like Last modified:
2007-09-10 19:27:07 by prospektor
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Cobra2411 Posts: 6153 Incept: 2007-06-26
Dark Side of the Moon
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Nomorespin, Sad to say, but you're absolutely correct. Some people are too lazy that even though they agree and support you, they won't write because it's too hard or takes time or they don't know what to say... I've written before and I'll continue to write... KD, It's funny, I've always assumed that by the time I retire Social Security and Medicare would be gonners. I never thought of them as a Ponzi scheme. What I saw was politicians borrowing money from it with no real hope of paying it back. It's a basic savings account that ensures you put enough away to help you when you're old and now it's been ****d and left bleeding in the woods by the greedy politicians. As far as the housing issue? I figure that some people really didn't know what was going to happen. Does that mean we should bail them out? No ****ing Way! I think that we should make sure they have access to the basic necessities and we should also help them transition, but NO BAILOUT. Food stamps, assisted housing, eased bankruptcy laws, eased filing of bankruptcy... etc... NO BAILOUT. The equity markets completely disregarded risk IMO and now they want the FED to rescue them. I've said it before and I'll say it again: **** THEM IN THE ASS! I don't really have a political party affiliation, but I do like and agree with the libertarian point of view. They're for a very small government that pretty much stays the **** out of the way. Made a bad bet? So sorry... Better luck next time. Discounted risk and now it's back to bit you in the ass? Best of luck and let me know how that works out for you. I'll be writing letters. I have to watch, I sometimes get wrapped up in it and get a little salty. I think you can appreciate that. ---------- Suppose you were a criminal, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself... Last modified:
2007-09-10 19:25:55 by cobra2411
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Theone Posts: 6865 Incept: 2007-08-07 They crucified the only PERFECT one Banned
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Prosp.... When you have a 9/11 in your country you might change your mind. Of course it will be the American taxpayers like me and our military that will be bailing your ass out like always. Sheesh, the clueless. OMG! ---------- Let me know when the DENIAL of who runs everything is over. Until then enjoy the circle jerk. I'm going fishing. State of the Union ---> http://www.mindspring.com/~lcruiser/Stat....
2007-09-10 19:26:59
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Cashncarry Posts: 3970 Incept: 2007-07-24
SoCal
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Thank you Karl, for laying it out for us plain as day. It would be great if this nation would just take it's medicine now so that it doesn't experience an economic catastrophe later. It's unfortunate that these events are taking place during the height of a National Election cycle where those in government who wouldn't normally be inclined to vote for a bailout will do so just as a shortsighted CYA move before an election. My faxes and emails will be sent out. (For all the good it will do considering the kind of representatives we have here in the epicenter of the Left Coast Real Estate Bubble.) My family was a text-book example of those you cite as the cause of the Bubble. I purchased a new home in the O.C. in late 2003 - Re-Fi'd twice and took out a healthy equity line as we saw the apparent value of our home go up 47% from late 2003 to early 2006. We decided to put it up for sale in June, 2006 with the hope of upgrading to a nice McMansion in the more affordable Inland Empire. That's when I realized the market was going to ****, and I was relieved to find a buyer after 9 months on the market. Needless to say, we reversed our decision to buy that McMansion and put most of the money in CD's. The wife and I are just sitting back watching "Price Reduced" signs and REO sales sprout up all around us like daisies. I hate to see people lose their homes, but they made the decision to buy what they could not afford - no one should be rewarded for that. We'll see worse things if the Government meddles with the free market and tries to slap a quick baind-aid fix on a serious problem. Let's take our medicine now for the sake of our children. No Bailout! ---------- "What's that burning smell, and why are we in this handbasket?..."
2007-09-10 19:28:02
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Cobra2411 Posts: 6153 Incept: 2007-06-26
Dark Side of the Moon
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Lcruiser... Don't even start with 9/11. The best handled part of that was in the beginning when we did nothing. What has transpired since then has been a total failure IMO. Spend money or the terrorist win... Support America, go shopping... ---------- Suppose you were a criminal, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself...
2007-09-10 19:31:30
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Theone Posts: 6865 Incept: 2007-08-07 They crucified the only PERFECT one Banned
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Uh, What did Bush say right on TV? No Hinting around either. NO BAILOUT! ---------- Let me know when the DENIAL of who runs everything is over. Until then enjoy the circle jerk. I'm going fishing. State of the Union ---> http://www.mindspring.com/~lcruiser/Stat....
2007-09-10 19:32:46
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Theone Posts: 6865 Incept: 2007-08-07 They crucified the only PERFECT one Banned
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shut the **** up Cobra, you're making a fool outta yourself. I'm not going to put up with you fools bull**** anymore. No Mercy! ---------- Let me know when the DENIAL of who runs everything is over. Until then enjoy the circle jerk. I'm going fishing. State of the Union ---> http://www.mindspring.com/~lcruiser/Stat....
2007-09-10 19:39:10
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Ruffcut Posts: 2193 Incept: 2007-07-07 Mushagain Online
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I can't go around telling people of these issues. THey are so clueless to what this whole financial mess is about. Once in a while I will vent and they will look at me and are hoping I don't have a stroke. I talked over two years ago, with my dad, about housing affordability. It does not take wiz kid math skills to figure what might be coming. KK, of Wm, says its the perfect storm? This **** hasn't even started brewing. Every home owner is losing value and wealth. Anyone who bought in the last 4-5 years could be really be ****ed. ---------- Support locally, and **** off globally!
2007-09-10 19:45:55
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Cobra2411 Posts: 6153 Incept: 2007-06-26
Dark Side of the Moon
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Sorry Lcruiser... I don't agree. We went looking for terrorists and somehow ended up destroying a country because of BS intel and we end up stuck in some geo-political quagmire... AND THE TERRORISTS ARE STILL ALIVE! Total waste of money. Money that we borrowed from foreign investors that now leaves us that much more vulnerable to capital flight. The dead is done and we're there. Believe it or not I'm 100% behind the troops. It's not their fault they're over there. I say give them everything they need and lets get the job done. I don't believe it was necessary. We have no right playing "world police" by ourselves. I dare say that our debt is getting to the point that we may never be able to pay it back. That's a scary though. That's why I don't want any bailouts; because our government already has been reckless with their management of the countries money. It's got to stop or it will crush us. ---------- Suppose you were a criminal, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself...
2007-09-10 19:53:41
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