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Genesis Posts: 71358 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1471-M....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-09-28 08:30:56
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Mayorquimby Posts: 5852 Incept: 2008-09-18 
Ponzi Planet Online
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Smells like depression to me (if we're LUCKY).
---------- It's a PONZI ECONOMY and it already HAS collapsed. Now they need more ponzi!
2009-09-28 08:37:40
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Nuke_engineer Posts: 769 Incept: 2007-08-19
NC
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Great ticker. The problem is that as you have aptly pointed out, the last few administrations as well as this one are focused on keeping the status quo (large business, large banks, etc.) going rather than solving the problem once and for all. Now they are hoping that propaganda and sheer hope with no accounting basis from investors will sway the markets and bring them back to what they once where. We lost our competitiveness in the late 70's. We're just like an elephant shot between the eyes that is dead but just keeps going because the rest of the body doesn't know its dead yet. Bush and Obama are about giving the dead body of the elephant hope and transfusions of its own dead blood in a desperate attempt to keep it going. When the elephant finally collapses and small business (worms) get to eat the carcass and renew this country again is when we'll start the path back to recovery. ---------- HAL, All trespassers and pigmen vampires must be shot. Survivors will be shot again. I need to buy more ammunition! Scotty, Beam Me Up to the Land of Glass-Stegall! Last modified:
2009-09-28 08:41:47 by nuke_engineer
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Asimov Posts: 26633 Incept: 2007-08-26
east tennessee Online
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They were holding this trash at or near 100% under mark to market. I have little doubt that it's now OVER 100% because there was no reason to make the change otherwise.
---------- It's justifiably immoral to try to deal in a moral fashion with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
2009-09-28 08:55:49
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Alex Posts: 1649 Incept: 2007-08-03 Online
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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b78f92b6-ab89-....
2009-09-28 08:57:56
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Statusquojoe Posts: 2397 Incept: 2008-11-20
Land of the fees Home of the slaves.
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Quote:The bottom line here folks is as I have been hollering about for over two years: Banks and other institutions are carrying paper at FAR beyond its reasonable fair-market value - or that which it will EVER realize under any reasonable set of assumptions going forward. It seems another problem is that almost everyone from the developer to the builder to the city/jurisdiction were basing their future "earnings" on the fictional values and growth, spending like giddy teenagers at a shopping mall with their parents credit card. Speaking of teenagers its also like a party when the folks are gone, the teenagers have a small amount of beer tell everyone there is a big party and then when the reality hits there is no more beer, things turn real ugly for the hapless parents who are spending their kids future in Cancun (i.e. their house gets trashed). ---------- "In short, you are the definition of moral hazard." Senator Bunning to Bernanke
2009-09-28 09:20:54
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Mayorquimby Posts: 5852 Incept: 2008-09-18
Ponzi Planet Online
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By the time they start 'realizing' these losses, we'll be well into the Alt-A's and taxes will be ramping. I don't know what they're smoking thinking they can get enough growth going to right this ship but I agree with Prechter. Wake me up when we make new highs in oil, silver, gold AND stocks - AND with a stable dollar.
---------- It's a PONZI ECONOMY and it already HAS collapsed. Now they need more ponzi!
2009-09-28 09:58:55
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Jenha Posts: 57 Incept: 2009-03-27 Florida
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This is happening in my neighborhood right now. Our builder (Watson Custom Home in Jacksonville, FL) went under about a year ago. It took forever for Wachovia/Wells Fargo to actually foreclose. The foreclosure sale is taking place next month, but what Wachovia is doing is bundling all Watson properties together so they will get very few biders; then Wachovia is going to take the title as high bidder. Wachovia is giving a song and dance about how they will then hire a builder to finish unfinished homes in order to sell at higher prices. Total BS! I'm sure they are just doing the same crap that KD is explaining in his most excellent ticker. Therefore, we have to sit in a neighborhood with several half-finished homes, homes that have been sitting for year, likely rotting and decaying, and that have been targets for various miscreants. If priced right, these houses would sell because we are in a very good location; however, it looks like Wachovia is not going to let this happen in order to preserve their fairy tale balance sheet.
2009-09-28 10:14:31
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Steelhead23 Posts: 387 Incept: 2008-09-09 Portland OR
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Golly Karl, You are asking the regulators to force banks to acknowledge their losses while, as you have so dilegently shown, the FED, the nation's top banking regulator won't acknowledge its losses and in fact has threatened to blow up the economy if we take a peek under its accounting sheets. And yet, the NYSE is up 112 at the bell. Trading in this environment is playing with kryptonite while tripping.
---------- short em all - let God sort em out!
2009-09-28 10:40:11
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Anti Posts: 1286 Incept: 2007-10-09
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If they are ignoring the rules and marking to myth while they hold the property then it is only a lack of imagination which prevents them from selling the property while not taking the accounting loss.
---------- Health is better than health insurance http://gerson.org/ Over the past 60 years, thousands of people have used the Gerson Therapy to recover from so-called “incurable” diseases such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease and arthritis.
2009-09-28 11:58:59
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Mrobe10586 Posts: 49 Incept: 2008-12-30
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Is it too naive to ask who is paying the property taxes on these properties?
2009-09-28 12:08:55
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Genesis Posts: 71358 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Nobody Mrobe.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-09-28 12:11:14
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Jinroh Posts: 646 Incept: 2009-05-05 Room 101 Online
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Quote:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b78f92b6-ab89-11de-9be4-00144feabdc0.html How in hell,can they get away with the **** mentioned in the article above !??! ---------- Constitution Class taught by Michael Badnarik : http://www.archive.org/details/Michael_Badnarik I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
2009-09-28 12:13:07
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Krzelune Posts: 2078 Incept: 2007-10-08 
DFW
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If the taxes aren't being paid, then eventually the local taxing authority will foreclose.
2009-09-28 12:14:45
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Genesis Posts: 71358 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Eventually, yes. The tax cert will be sold but redemption on that is frequently several years.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-09-28 12:16:34
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Deejunk Posts: 578 Incept: 2008-10-11 Now DC - Solar Power.
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Krze - Our county has one of the fastest turn around in the nation. But from not paying taxes to foreclosure is still 2.5 years.
---------- http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2451556/The_.... - I'm seriously ready for inflation, deflation & TOTAL collapse of the US & Global economic & market systems.. I'm the sexy blonde not in this vid but my x is the lead chichen-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFIXsrjk.... Last modified:
2009-09-28 18:02:17 by deejunk
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Sigmaseek Posts: 7 Incept: 2009-05-08
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The bank typically pays property tax in a land that follows the rule of law. As if that exists.
2009-09-28 12:45:52
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Deejunk Posts: 578 Incept: 2008-10-11 Now DC - Solar Power.
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Sigma - where I live, they very often don't which is how I ended up with my farm in 2004 for less than $3k.
---------- http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2451556/The_.... - I'm seriously ready for inflation, deflation & TOTAL collapse of the US & Global economic & market systems.. I'm the sexy blonde not in this vid but my x is the lead chichen-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFIXsrjk.... Last modified:
2009-09-28 18:01:08 by deejunk
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Mortgageguymn Posts: 181 Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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I know of blocks where half of the houses ar boarded up & none of them are on the MLS.
---------- "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." - Harold Hecuba
2009-09-28 12:58:22
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Takingbets Posts: 10 Incept: 2009-08-25 CA
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"Institutions place loans on nonaccrual status when “deemed uncollectible”" I was looking at a link (see below) provided by CR over the weekend and was wondering what "nonaccurual" meant when looking at the unbelievable $ amounts on the banks books. If you look at the nonaccrual amounts in the links below for BofA it is mind blowing that we arent forcing these guys to clear this crap off their books! You can look-up any bank here: http://banktracker.investigativereportin.... BofA link (you have to click on each of the five below the results column to see the bad loans on their books): http://banktracker.investigativereportin....
2009-09-28 13:12:43
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Capeman Posts: 2168 Incept: 2007-07-12
San Diego
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Seems to me that GAAP accounting rules are more of a guidance than enforceable. In every instance/quote from the ticker the word "should" is used. That would leave all of those rules up to interpretation rather than be enforceable rules. That's a pretty weak way of making rules when you look at how accounting is the most bent industry out there outside of the legal industry. ---------- "I believe all God's creatures have a soul... except bears, bears are Godless killing machines!" - Steven Colbert
2009-09-28 13:37:51
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Leonidas Posts: 227 Incept: 2008-09-06
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The Fed/Bankster/Congress daisy chain has set-up the local municipalities and states for disaster. If mark to BS is allowed to continue, the resulting revenue stream deficiencies will cause massive pain on all responsible property owners. A de facto bank bailout is the consequence as municipalities will raise property taxes(see Florida) and fees on the prudent property owners in an attempt to make-up for budget shortfalls. Locals need to take action now and change the rules at the local level. Perhaps a mello roos or special assessment for any banking use property to cover any property tax revenue deficiency. Why not accelerate tax lien process to start the process of clearing the market and making shadow inventory a productive asset for the community? How about accelerating foreclosures on non owner occupied? Maybe a special progressive assessment on all shadow inventory that isn't sold (pick a number?) days after a NOD is issued? Locals need to get on it!
---------- Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is it's nature? Marcus Aurelius
2009-09-28 14:35:22
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Lastchance Posts: 1132 Incept: 2008-11-19 Las Vegas
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Excellent Ticker. Here in the City of Las Vegas, all meetings are public and the City Council meets every two weeks. At every meeting, presentations are made by Neighborhood Services to recover costs for abatements: typically, it is board and secure vacant properties which are a blight (an most have been a problem for months). This is a real cost: money is paid to contractors to do the work. But the city then can only place a lien on the property and recover its out of pocket cost when and if the property is sold. Lately, it seems bank names are the owner of record and they apparently have no interest in doing anything to prevent blight. But the thing that really strikes me is that the last sale date is always given. I look at the house and wonder how anyone would have paid the amount of money for what I see on the screen. ---------- "We don't quit. I don't quit" President Obama 1/27/10 Man, I would to have him in one of our poker games.
2009-09-28 15:54:03
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Deepsee100 Posts: 696 Incept: 2008-02-05 Paris
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Deejunk said:Quote:Sigma - where I live, they very often don't which is how I ended up with my farm in 2004 for less than $3k. That is SO smart. Congrats. I wish there was a "we are not worthy" smiley that I could paste here. You're giving me a vision to the future. ---------- Other countries have their history. Brazil has football.
2009-09-28 17:29:28
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Reddweb Posts: 381 Incept: 2008-01-20
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Banks own this country. "democracy" is an illusion. Congressmen/Senators once inducted into congress, get a secret briefing (the "or else" doctrine) and majority of them start acting accordingly. Laws are for J6P only.
2009-09-28 18:19:48
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