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Genesis Posts: 71422 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1404-I....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-09-03 12:59:16
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Grf Posts: 489 Incept: 2008-12-08 Online
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I look forward to online education putting the last nail in the coffin of instutitional $40K/yr education.
2009-09-03 13:07:38
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Exorcism Posts: 301 Incept: 2007-11-30 
Denver Area
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**sigh** Sometimes it just overwhelms
---------- The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be. -Douglas Adams
2009-09-03 13:08:49
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Sadlerj Posts: 439 Incept: 2008-08-15
Harrisburg PA
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Quote:Students are literally coming out of college with more debt than they can ever reasonably hope to amortize over their working lives, making their education a negative net equity position - that is, a guaranteed losing investment. As a bill collector on federally guarenteed student loans I have to agree. It's been my experiance that school teachers are hit the worst. Usually they have over 100k in default. Their salaries just can't cover the repayment and a lot of them are only substituting. The people I talk to are generally pretty stupid about personal finance anyway - compounding interest and whatnot. Usually their only option is to consolidate the loans with Direct Lending (ie the federal gov). Direct Lending offers an income contingent repayment. As long as you make your payments for 20 years then no matter what your remaining balance is it is forgiven. The banks and colleges still make their money, of course- the debt is simply shifted over to the taxpayer. Frankly I wish there was a scarlett letter that defaulted borrowers have to wear. I'm not sure if I want the services of a teacher, or a dentist, or a lawyer who can't keep their house in order.
2009-09-03 13:11:21
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Seriousslacker Posts: 68 Incept: 2008-09-30 
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Spelling - "Tired" back to the Fed Is the debt adjusted for inflation - I know it would still be high, but it might be more realistic?
2009-09-03 13:13:20
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Genesis Posts: 71422 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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No - as I explained in the other thread the problem with doing that is two-fold: 1. Interest carrying cost changes with inflation. Low debt + high inflation is just as bad as high debt + low inflation. 2. WHICH inflation number? Headline? Core? SGS? Who's? Oh, and the methodology changes too. The fact remains that inflation or no inflation you need to SERVICE that debt. Inflation doesn't make the servicing easier unless it is happening right now at any given point in time AND that inflation echoes back to wages. This is the basic problem with "norming" those numbers - "inflation" in prices alone does NOT necessarily reflect back to wages, but it must for it to "help" (and thus for the "adjustment" to be meaningful.) The last time it DID reflect back in a meaningful way was in the 1970s. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-09-03 13:17:58
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Baja Posts: 77 Incept: 2009-06-03 Outback Texas Banned
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Gary North wrote a column not too long ago about attending college online. I was blown away by how many accredited universities offer online degree programs at about 25% of the cost of going to campus. At first I didn't like the idea because there are so many unethical people doing business online, but as I looked into it I realized that many tier 1 schools offer online degree programs. I am not going to compel my kids to go to school online, but I will incent them to do so by setting aside the difference in dad's out of pocket cost in a trust so that they can start a business, buy a house, whatever. It will be up to them to decide what they want more. Four years of drinking between classes (not proud of it, but I know it for a fact) or a nice big payoff with the degree.
2009-09-03 13:22:32
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Mayorquimby Posts: 5868 Incept: 2008-09-18
Ponzi Planet Online
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What's so frustrating is that even AFTER people are screwed into poverty because of crap like this, they STILL don't get it. There are millions of college-educated individuals living 3 to 600 Sq ft in some roach-infested building in Harlem, Greenpoint etc. here in NYC trying desperately to afford their iPhones and Starbucks. It's INSANE. I often wonder how many wake up, look around them and say to themselves, "This isn't where I'd envisioned I'd be at this point in my life! Something's wrong here." Re: debt - I know people that make really good money and can easily afford to save up $15K for a car but they just finance one instead because we've all grwon so accustomed to carrying debt. This is why I hope this whole thing collapses sooner rather than later because the sheeple will NOT wake up and act responsibly. I don't want to wait 15 years for the inevitable. We all need to turn people onto TF. This is the only place where people, 'get it'. ---------- It's a PONZI ECONOMY and it already HAS collapsed. Now they need more ponzi!
2009-09-03 13:23:01
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Sadlerj Posts: 439 Incept: 2008-08-15
Harrisburg PA
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Quote:I know people that make really good money and can easily afford to save up $15K for a car but they just finance one instead Well if your car loan is at 6% and you can make 10% with that 15k invested elsewhere then that makes sense. Of course, I'm sure those aren't the kind of people you're talking about. Last modified:
2009-09-03 13:42:34 by sadlerj
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Lucky Posts: 345 Incept: 2009-02-07
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Thank you for that Ticker, Karl. I literally roared with laughter for several minutes. Ponzoid Government. Ponzoid Education. " ... tuition grows at about twice the rate of inflation." Appetites of the fatted academics on the road to ruin ... ---------- Now it appears the 'goal' is no longer to defeat communism. The goal now appears to rabidly loot, and has entered a new desperate phase where the utilization of slave labor for mercantilist gain has extended to bankruptcy for profit, and the stealing of the meager savings of the slaves themselves.
2009-09-03 13:30:53
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Wisc-xc Posts: 4824 Incept: 2007-07-14
outside chicago
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A reflection also of the degree of distressed families out there. More unemployed households equals greater need for borrowing. Since it's deferred most won't care until it's piper paying time. What a racket.
2009-09-03 13:32:36
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Widgeon Posts: 6525 Incept: 2007-08-30
OK
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Realize that "saving the system" includes accepting this cost of education and much more. That's not a system worth saving (and I've got a Ph.D. so I sure hell value REAL EDUCATION). $500k college $5k monthly health care insurance $1M 1500 ft2 homes That's what "They are Trying to Save." It's just Slavery. A 25% INCREASE YOY? That's Mind Blowing ... TRAGIC.
2009-09-03 13:34:40
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Emb145 Posts: 8706 Incept: 2007-08-25
Near saltwater
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Quote:But in fact you got screwed three times - you almost certainly overpaid for the car outright, you indisputably overpaid for the car if you financed it (when one considers the interest paid over the life of the loan) in addition and you got rid of your paid-in-full and cheap-to-operate vehicle and saddled yourself with more debt - yet another building block in the Ponzi Finance wall. But I can afford the monthly payment and DESERVE that new car.
2009-09-03 13:40:25
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Etz3l Posts: 9103 Incept: 2007-06-26
Online
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The criminal banking cartel is "investing" in your future... as a debt slave!
---------- Treating the symptoms of financial corruption isn’t the same as removing the causes.
2009-09-03 13:49:18
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Danno Posts: 37 Incept: 2009-06-11 midwest us
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If we could only get the banks to keep lending money, we'd all be rich. If we could all just get "green jobs" (like Rickshaw pullers), we'd all be rich. If we could just have a little more socialism, we'd all be rich.
2009-09-03 13:49:29
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Sadlerj Posts: 439 Incept: 2008-08-15
Harrisburg PA
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The schools and banks have been shaking hands on deals that rob the taxpayer. Really, it's that simple. Now, instead of banks, it seems the schools and .gov will shake hands on deals to rob the taxpayer. Now that the banks are owned by .gov. Or is .gov owned by the banks? I get confused.
2009-09-03 13:50:08
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Need4mospd Posts: 12 Incept: 2009-02-04 Houston
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Something that's been bothering me about the Population & Credit chart you've posted up a few times now.... there's no value assigned to the y axis. I understand what it means and I saw you post the numbers earlier, but with no real value on the actual image, it's hard to make people that don't "get it", get it. If you could throw the percent change on it, it would have more impact among people we'd all like to send it to. Thanks for all your work.
2009-09-03 13:54:31
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Jackl Posts: 678 Incept: 2008-01-17
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Education isn't sustainable. As such the bottom of the pyramid will fallout eventually. You can't force people to work towards a better living that isn't there. Education/Medical is going to blow up because the assumption everyone needs both and revenues will never fall. We've seen that before: Housing blew up over the assumption that everyone needs homes and prices will never fall. Keep raising it 20% every year eventually even with credit people will just say **** it.
2009-09-03 13:55:40
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Genesis Posts: 71422 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Getting the Y axis to display as percent change off the base is something I've worked on but failed at so far - I'm not an Excel expert tho :) ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me Last modified:
2009-09-03 13:59:52 by genesis
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Emb145 Posts: 8706 Incept: 2007-08-25
Near saltwater
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Need, That chart represents the relationship of credit vs population. The units/numbers/percentages aren't really that important, imo.
2009-09-03 13:57:54
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Eternalblue Posts: 4230 Incept: 2007-08-09
sokali Online
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Quote:But I can afford the monthly payment and DESERVE that new car. NO NO you don't DESERVE that BMW, you are ENTITLED to one... ---------- my miniblog; http://economicpsychosis.blogspot.com/
2009-09-03 14:00:10
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis Online
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themortgagekids are going to go to community college for two years and then off to state school. They are graduating with no debt and I will pay for their college while they are in school. Money that my parents have set aside for college for them will be there for them to start their after college life. There will be no debt slaves raised in TMD household.
---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-09-03 14:00:42
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Ggg71 Posts: 27 Incept: 2009-06-03 Swampscott, MA
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20, 25, or even 30 years of payments!!! It's insane, and I would argue it is criminal to let an 18 year old, who has no idea of the consequences get one of these with only a wink and a nod. How many students blow this money on some sort of liberal arts degree that leaves them barely employable in the real world? It's mind boggling. Life is expensive enough without student loan debt on top of it.
2009-09-03 14:00:49
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Brem Posts: 1 Incept: 2009-06-08
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The debt associated with college tuition has a disproportionate impact on those who are too “rich” to qualify for state sponsored education and too poor to pay cash for their education. This results in a declining standard of living for recent college graduates, with significant debt, versus their parents and grandparents. This is especially true for those students who are not relying on any assistance from their parents and are putting themselves through school by going further into debt.
2009-09-03 14:01:00
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Dji Posts: 720 Incept: 2009-04-21
Fleming Island Online
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Sadlerj what is the default rate at today? 20%? Bet it doubles in the next few years while the can gets kicked down the bridge to nowhere. ---------- What goes up Must come Down- Alan Parsons Project THE TRUTH HURTS! -Dji
2009-09-03 14:01:32
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