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| User Info | Idiocy Defined: More Debt Slaves! in forum [Ticker] | ||||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1035-I....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-13 09:20:32
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Jstanley01 Posts: 2574 Incept: 2008-07-30 
San Antonio, Texas Online
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Idiocy brought to a whole new level, unseen in the history of civilized life on the planet.
---------- ...so in short, my fellow Texans, we must secede. "For the children..." --Me
2009-05-13 09:25:45
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Pensicostreet Posts: 719 Incept: 2007-06-26 
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Idiot bailout nation.
2009-05-13 09:33:49
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Wisc-xc Posts: 4828 Incept: 2007-07-14
outside chicago Online
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Insanity! My in-laws have been trying to sell their home in Chicago's western suburbs. They've had no bites, not even a showing. Their agent claims the problem isn't price as much as it is down payment. NO ONE has the 20% down required on a 30yr conforming loan. Few have 10% down. Even a 3% FHA loan is no slam dunk, hence the $8,000 tax credit scheme. Betcha this won't work either. PRICES HAVE TO COME DOWN---MORE, MUCH MORE. PERIOD!
2009-05-13 09:34:23
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Throxxofvron Posts: 2672 Incept: 2009-02-17
The Land of Bilk & Money
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I consider the illegal inflation of property assessments that were a hallmark of the RRE pricing bubble to be a form of de-facto unsecured lending as the mortgage broker or bank inflating the prices understood that in the event of the buyer defaulting that the underlying asset was actually worth less than the face value of the loan produced. Cash out loans represent yet another form of this unsecured lending activity. ---------- DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell Last modified:
2009-05-13 09:39:29 by throxxofvron
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Throx: Yep. And it was complained about as early as 2001 in a formal petition too.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-13 09:41:49
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Krzelune Posts: 2079 Incept: 2007-10-08
DFW
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Federal Taxes taken from tax paying Americans along with borrowed money via bond sales given to people who have demonstrated an inability to manage their finances, as a down payment on a house with a loan guaranteed by the same people who contributed via taxes to the down payment. this sux
2009-05-13 09:53:33
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Slyace Posts: 1061 Incept: 2007-10-02
Dallas
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Wisc, here in DFW I am seeing some prices on foreclosures decline to the point where it makes sense to consider paying cash, which is consistent with the thesis that nobody has money for a down payment. E.g., relative new construction, 1,800 sq ft, new carpet and paint, should rent for at least $1,100 for 98k with 4% buyer's agent commission. Sold for 135k a few years ago.
2009-05-13 10:15:29
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John117 Posts: 221 Incept: 2009-02-19
NOVA
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I was doing OK for a few days these past weeks despite watching the train coming straight at our nation, but my "Oh S**t" meter is about pegged today. This Ticker, combined with a few other news reports on the Forum today (Water Rights Legislation & Barney Frank talking of backing Mini Bonds) is the straw that broke the camels back.  Now add to all this that I sat in a US Senate Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday about "Helping Local Law Enforcement." I went to see how they would approach the pending Hate Crimes Bill about to be rubber stamped into law. Search for "Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009" here http://www.thomas.gov/home/c111query.htm....] Look for the version that says "Referred to Senate Committee after being Received from House". This is the version the Senate is working on now. Of course, the hearing was pure political theater that only dealt with how much money Congress was pumping State and local LEs way via the C.O.P.S program and the bailout. They never even mentioned the Hate Crimes Bill which will virtually legislate a national thought police at the local level funded with Federal Tax dollars. When signed into law by BHO (he says before Memorial Day), there will be mandatory sentencing (10 Years!) if you "assault" (which is very loosely defined) a protected class of citizen. Read it for yourself and YOU guess who this was designed to help. Certainly not the nations WASPs. Connect the dots here folks. The middle class is going down.. The feds will soon have a stranglehold on the States, most private property, and your thoughts. Gen, Lets get the Anti-Federalist Party going NOW! Before it's WWWWWAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY too late. ---------- Now we face the danger which in the past has been most destructive to the human - plenty, comfort and ever increasing leisure. No dynamic people have ever survived these dangers. - John Steinbeck Last modified:
2009-05-13 10:25:24 by john117
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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I don't see a problem with letting them use it as a downpayment. I SEE THE PROBLEM AS GIVING AN INCENTIVE TO BUY HOMES AT ALL. Hell its their money - let em use it for a downpayment. Their money just as much as if it was in their pocket. BUT WHY THE HELL IS GOV IN THE BUSINESS OF INCENTIVIZING PARTICULAR INDUSTRIES. Disclosure - I work for a bank as a commissioned loan officer and this program and any program that supports housing is in my best interest. I also own part of a farm and receive gov handouts there. But I say get gov out of the business of incenting different businesses. Could we just all stand on our own merits please. ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-05-13 10:55:46
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Bozonian Posts: 14033 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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It's the "Revenge of the Leech****s", playing at a government near you.
---------- I'm so depressed about outsourcing I called the suicide hotline and got a call center in Pakistan. They got all excited and asked me if I could drive a truck. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
2009-05-13 11:01:40
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Markytom Posts: 217 Incept: 2009-02-19
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I've been stating for months that the house prices don't even matter for people who are in debt and live paycheck to paycheck. They won't be able to maintain their houses let alone pay the mortgage. These houses will become run down and abandoned and I still contend we will see thousands upon thousands of houses bulldozed to the ground. The middle class is indeed being destroyed. The rich (top one percent wealthiest) used to control less than 10% of total wealth 30 years ago, now the top one percent wealthiest control 22% of total wealth. You could see it happening with outrageous CXO salaries, tax evasions and loopholes ignored, golden parachutes, short-term decisions ignoring long-term consequences, and lots and lots of blatant fraud (and the government unwilling to do anything about it). The "poor" continue to receive more and more "help" - free food, free healthcare, free education, free daycare, free money (tax credits, social security, etc.), free you-name-it, and now free houses too. Except none of it is really free. The middle class is who gets squeezed. People say we may follow the Japan model or the Zimbabwe model. I think we may end up following the Venezuela model. I would not be surprised at all if we ended up under martial law within the next two years and Obama declared himself king. Most industries could be nationalized (e.g government motors). I don't see Congress or the States or a majority of the citizens doing anything to stop it either. After all, there are now more people working for government than manufacturing and agriculture combined. The frog has slowly been heated up in a pot of water and is now cooked. The US is done. It is a banana republic. Who can say that the point of no return has not been reached? On a different note a TV truck and the Oscar Mayer weinermobile were parked outside the Houston Stanford Financial offices today - I have no idea what that could mean.
2009-05-13 11:09:24
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Jstanley01 Posts: 2574 Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas Online
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Themortgagedude: The problem is the redistribution. Take the money from the taxpayers who earned it (or who will earn it in the future, so goes the hope) and give it to the leech-****s who didn't, to spend as the government deems wise. That's turned out to be a sure-fire prescription for distorting markets into oversupply and deflation. Meanwhile the opportunity cost of what would have otherwise been produced can never be recouped. Which is why oversupply and deflation bring on depressions. In this case, the fact that the leech-****s STILL won't be able to cover their notes makes this "Subprime II: The Horror Continues," a double feature with Boz's movie, coming soon to a tent city near you! INSANE. ---------- ...so in short, my fellow Texans, we must secede. "For the children..." --Me
2009-05-13 11:20:05
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Moroni Posts: 1885 Incept: 2008-12-03 New York, NY
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I see it as bailing out the baby boom generation... who seem to think their houses are retirement accounts... at the expense of young families looking to buy their first home. Keep the prices as high as possible, and another retiring baby boomer can sip mai tais in Florida. It's redistribution along generational lines. ---------- "Those institutions and individuals who insist upon clinging to the dying past will wither with it. Those who understand the death process will not mourn the passing of the old, but instead celebrate the birth of the new paradigm." - Gerald Celente, Trends Journal Q12010, Page 20
2009-05-13 11:42:44
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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It didn't work two years ago and it won't work now. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-13 12:03:03
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Mortgageguymn Posts: 182 Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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I agree with MortgageDude that the govt should not be trying to incent buying, by using tax credits OR supressed interest rates. Moroni is right that ALL supposed buyer assistance schemes do more to help sellers than buyers. When rates snap back up and the tax credit fades, home sales will plummet. The only means (to my knowledge) by which buyers can use their tax credit (which can't be obtained until AFTER they've bought) for down payment is for them to borrow against the future credit. And the companies that have sprung up to facilitate such loans (where your tax credit is pledged to the lender) charge rates & fees that are outrageous by any logical standard. So the only takers will be those who don't mind throwing away perfectly good money in order to get what they want NOW. In other words people incapable of even slightly deferred gratification. Lacking moral character, they are much more likely to default on the mortgage. In contrast, buyers who save up their own 3.5% down payment are paragons of virtue. And buyers who have parents who can "gift" them the 3.5% down tend to come from families with some money-sense, families that will usually help them again in case of financial emergency. So I actually think the normal 3.5% downpayment buyers will generally be OK, especially since most of them are buying at prices that are down 40% from the top.
---------- "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." - Harold Hecuba
2009-05-13 12:09:07
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Etz3l Posts: 9103 Incept: 2007-06-26
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Gen is right. The only beneficiaries are the pigmen. Higher prices = higher bonuses. ---------- Treating the symptoms of financial corruption isn’t the same as removing the causes.
2009-05-13 12:36:01
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Krs Posts: 163 Incept: 2009-05-07 Colleyville, Texas
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http://www.housingwire.com/2009/05/13/re.... And of course I'm shocked, who da thunk? The link covers the expansion of the tax credit to all buyers, making loan limit and cap increases from '08 permanent and providing additional capital to FRE and FNM to ensure they have the ability to continue to lend. “Housing is the engine of economic growth, and real estate is the road to economic recovery,” says Charles McMillan, NAR president and Dallas-based broker" No amount of money is going to find home buyers who have the ability and where with all to buy and make payments on all of the home inventory on the market, not even close! The engine has stalled as we reach 50,000 feet thanks to all the pumping going on. The fall will be exhilarating, the landing a spectacular hurt. Hello "Great Repression!" By the time people wake up and accept the truth the country they pretended to love will be gone, taken by those who pretended to represent them!
2009-05-13 14:13:04
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Dasripper Posts: 60 Incept: 2008-12-22 San Francisco
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Why do the pigmen have such a vested interest in seeing the middle class disappear?
2009-05-13 14:29:42
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Phantomace Posts: 2184 Incept: 2009-03-16
Las Vegas, NV, and your screen
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Dasripper: It is easier to control peasants. The more you have to lose, the more you will defend it. Peasants don't have much to lose. But, when they get wise to the game, it can get ugly. Not always, but it has happened before. France and a little device called a guillotine come to mind. ---------- "That was a little trick I call math. Oops, now I'm not emotionally invested..." - Dilbert The only good thing I have to say about Barney Frank is at least he's not breeding... Last modified:
2009-05-13 14:46:24 by phantomace
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Spazznout Posts: 235 Incept: 2009-04-15 Columbus, Ohio
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The poor neither have the ability nor desire to revolt. They are already slaves to the .gov. The fairly educated middle class in America are the only ones with enough in the game and wit to realize and stop this power grab be it intentional or not. Im not referring to tin foil ****. Reality is ****ed up enough right now to where reality can seem like tin foil.
---------- "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy 35th president of US 1961-1963 (1917 - 1963)
2009-05-13 14:45:04
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Az Posts: 1659 Incept: 2008-09-22
Looking down the Rabbit Hole
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John: Thanx for sharing your thoughts and concerns they=mine. Kwl & Ehancoc: Freedom Advocates: http://www.freedomadvocates.org/ Freedom21.org conference: http://freedom.org/ Everything you need to know is there. If anyone is interested in further info just pm me. Also, go to the UN site: http://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/documents/.... This link is for the booklet, they use flowery verbiage like “protection of the planet”, however, its all about control and redistribution of wealth thru environmentalism http://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/documents/.... Sorry for the off topic post Karl, (apologies up front) but it is an important issue that many are starting to feel being implemented. Maybe, Steph and RJ can add a forum to FedUP that would cover this impending movement of Agenda 21 and Sustainable Development.
---------- Whistleblowers R my heros
2009-05-13 16:43:25
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Deepsee100 Posts: 697 Incept: 2008-02-05 Paris
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They keep doing the same ****. Its so dumb it's infuriating.
---------- Other countries have their history. Brazil has football.
2009-05-13 16:51:38
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Crow Posts: 172 Incept: 2008-02-25
Canada
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You have to believe they have a vested interest in keeping asset prices high. I don't for a minute believe they give a **** about the average guy in the street. What they do care about is what he's thinking about. I mean imagine being able to lift your nose from the grindstone for a minute and be able to THINK. Being a Debt slave only gives you one avenue of thought...desperation.
---------- When does Keanu get here?
2009-05-13 16:58:38
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Az Posts: 1659 Incept: 2008-09-22
Looking down the Rabbit Hole
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Gen wrote..This is just another attempt to prop housing prices and thus destroy the lower and middle class, rather than withdrawing that support and allowing prices to correct to a level where people can actually afford to buy. Yes, its rebranding the subprime stratagem all over again rather than moving on to solutions, because they don't want a resolution to the problem, they just want to recycle the scheme. They just keep doing the same thing again and again and expect a different result, no it just makes it worse, so then it become apparent they are acquiring the desired result ... complete takeover and/or collapse. ---------- Whistleblowers R my heros Last modified:
2009-05-13 17:21:33 by az
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