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User Info How To (Unlawfully?) Blow A Market Bubble in forum [Ticker]
Genesis
Posts: 71422
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
KD^2
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1290-H....

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"The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-04 11:16:25
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Koolaid
Posts: 3171
Incept: 2007-07-23

Atlanta
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Good stuff Karl. So I've been thinking about something lately that I can't quite get my head around. The unwind of this latest mess depends on enforcement of leverage limits. 10:1 or 20:1 or whatever...at some point the game runs in reverse...unless they just allow for unlimited leverage and zero reserves. You and I won't ever get that treatment, but the Fed banks might be a different story? Is this possible? Normally I'd say no because the Fed then risks destroying it's only product, but with all the Keynesians dominating the discussions...who knows?

2009-08-04 11:26:14
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Ldog
Posts: 182
Incept: 2009-06-11
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Must be nice to have the Fed's error account.

2009-08-04 11:26:41
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Chris92346
Posts: 647
Incept: 2009-03-25
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Why would it ever crash if the Fed keeps blowing? What would be the evidence that the fed has decided to stop blowing the bubble?

2009-08-04 11:28:59
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Asimov
Posts: 26697
Incept: 2007-08-26

east tennessee
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Well put. Pretty much what I expected week before last. Too bad I was early, but the symptoms remain and don't seem to be improving.

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It's justifiably immoral to try to deal in a moral fashion with an immoral entity.

If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
2009-08-04 11:33:54
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Lilvern1
Posts: 3180
Incept: 2007-09-28

Bender! You're blind, stinking, sober!
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Quote:
Larry Kudlow's "New Bull Market" claim being particularly offensive


Kudlows incessant permabull sound bites are offesnsive.

From him we've heard about the "Goldilocks Economy", "V-Shaped Recession, "Soft Landing", "Drill, Drill, Drill", "Mustard Seeds".

One shallow, inane soundbite after another. Its as if Kudlow thinks all it takes to get the economy movign again is his cheerleading. He lies in bed at night feeling bad for the unemplyed millions and thinks, "I must do my part to help them by cheerleading even harder on my show tomorrow."

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"What part of 'we bailed you out' do you not get?" - Elizabeth Warren, Jan. 23, 2010
2009-08-04 11:40:58
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Aeroaggie01
Posts: 2
Incept: 2009-03-26
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Karl,

I was looking at the graph posted on this article and I believe there is either a mislabel, or the units are off on the axis.

The graph "Consumer Debt" should either read millions or the y-axis should go from 500 to 3,000. Right now the numbers are reading quadrillions.

I appreciate all the work you do, keep at it.

2009-08-04 11:58:49
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Dji
Posts: 720
Incept: 2009-04-21

Fleming Island
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How stupid to they think people are if there is no pullback ever who would even try to jump in front of that TRAIN.

How much volume do you think would be trading today without
Mr. PumpMonkey's computer 1,2,3 and 4?

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What goes up Must come Down- Alan Parsons Project
THE TRUTH HURTS! -Dji
2009-08-04 12:00:00
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Poydras2003
Posts: 767
Incept: 2007-08-05
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While the run-up is curious, the claim that banks are buying equities is unsubstantiated. Equity prices around the world are rising.

2009-08-04 12:02:45
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Diogenes
Posts: 487
Incept: 2007-08-03
Groningen, Netherlands
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Zero reserves is already legal.

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The only price discovery that is happening in todays markets is the price wich a society pays when it allows its markets to be run by corrupt bankers.
2009-08-04 12:08:11
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Coolhandluke
Posts: 5637
Incept: 2007-12-19

Out of the box
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I don't know who is buying what but they have been doing it on less and less volume for months.


SPY

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It's not that I'm lazy, I just don't give a **** anymore.
2009-08-04 12:14:08
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Hobbes
Posts: 13
Incept: 2009-07-10

Online
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"The problem comes when the consumer doesn't come back in and leverage themselves up any further - either because they refuse or worse, because they can't."

The consumer is at the "can't" stage, but someone else, apparently, isn't there yet. (no surprise to any of you):

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/RI/OFAnnce

'ONLY' 101 Billion short term stuff this week, any guesses on the total for next week? Hoping to top the 235 from a couple weeks ago?

Aug 4, 31 Billion, 4 Week Bills
Aug 5, 35 Billion, 70 Day CMBs
Aug 7, 35 Billion, 70 Day CMBs (not double counting, looks like 2 separate 70 Day CMBs auctions)

Announcements to come over the next couple of days:
Aug 10, ?? Billion, 13 Week Bill
Aug 10, ?? Billion, 26 Week Bill
Aug 11, ?? Billion, 3 Year Note
Aug 12, ?? Billion, 10 Year Note
Aug 13, ?? Billion, 30 Year Note

2009-08-04 12:17:54
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Kuhio
Posts: 206
Incept: 2008-12-31
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It's astounding that over the course of just a few months, we have quickly gone from outlandish tin, to suspicious conjecture, to pretty firm evidence of covert (overt?) market manipulation.

We used to have a somewhat free-market economy that rewarded those who did their homework and understood the issues. Now the incomes of these self-same producers (aka taxpayers) are being harvested to provide benefits and rewards not for themselves, but are being redirected to certain friends & political supporters.

How did we get here? Has it ever worked before? No. So what happens when the music ends?

2009-08-04 12:18:20
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Nirvan45
Posts: 1578
Incept: 2007-10-31

florida
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A second equity bubble in less than 10 yrs?
Who would have think people are that stupid
Just think a couple of months ago we where looking where they were going to blow the next bubble
It was right in our face

2009-08-04 12:20:32
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Hp12c
Posts: 29
Incept: 2009-06-03
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"despite the screeching of CNBC and others that you better "buy now or be priced out", with Larry Kudlow's "New Bull Market" claim being particularly offensive."
Reminds me of The 2006 home buying frenzy; this was the N.A.R. rallying cry- buy now or be priced out... people got burned then, and that's why "Joe 6 pack" and his 401k ain't buying it now..

2009-08-04 12:20:57
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Tomified
Posts: 584
Incept: 2008-03-13

MO
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The rest of the markets lockstepping up with us makes me think that I'll have to go global with my conspiracy theory. I'm guessing Goldman distributed the ramping expertise and/or software to the G20 leaders before the early April summit.

2009-08-04 12:22:06
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Marketdeception
Posts: 4004
Incept: 2007-08-31

Lancaster, NY
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Talk about bubbles, the NDX p/e is currently ~ 87. That seems to be the epicenter of their efforts. This will get ugly.

2009-08-04 12:24:52
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Dystopia
Posts: 91
Incept: 2009-07-10
New Jersey
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Well Done Gen!

This ticker is clear and concise..... One of the best yet.

2009-08-04 12:29:36
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Utowna
Posts: 165
Incept: 2008-02-26

Ancocisco
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Gee, just a year ago we would have been yelling tinfoil about such possibilities! I remember many around here saying the FED always acts lawfully. Couple this with Goldmans antics! Welcome to the Casino where the house alway wlns! What's your wager Ladies and Gents? Feeling lucky today?
BTW I'm licking my wounds like many here.

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Great Hunter of Bull and Bear.
2009-08-04 12:35:47
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Jwm_in_sb
Posts: 224
Incept: 2009-04-16

California Desert
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Okay Poydras, so then where is the money coming from to ramp it? YOu don't think that all CBs are more or less on the same page here?

2009-08-04 12:39:52
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Mezzmor
Posts: 507
Incept: 2008-10-09

Orlando, FL
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I have missed the entire run up, while fees eat away at my 401k's because they aren't earning anything in money market accounts.

I think I am still OK, I got out at 13700 on the Dow. I cannot believe that this can continue to Dow 20k can it?

2009-08-04 12:41:14
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Andrew123
Posts: 107
Incept: 2009-07-05
California
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Genesis, what is the real risk for the Fed of letting the dollar drop? There is massive overcapcity in productive resources, so the idea that it will result in a drmaticv rise in inflation seems implausible. Oil prices may rise, but three is currently an oversupply (absent China stockpiling), and china could always ease up on its purchases for a little while. Also, there could be more on the anti speculation front that could counteract any oil rally. The more I think about it, the more I conclude that the FED has gone all in on its hope that a higher stock market and more printing will reignaite the economy. I think they will let this play out for as long as possible. I really don't htink another 20% drop in the dollar will change Ben's course, when the alternative is game over for any hope of recovery and reappointment. Also, the lower the dollar gets, the less it has room to fall further, and the more the Chinese and other holders will be inclined not to dump it completly. AS someone who has been short for a while, this is a really painful conclusion to reach, and maybe I am top ticking the market, but if Ben has to choose between a lower dollar or a lower stock market and crush any recovery hopes, i think the lower dollar is a no brainer. What am I getting wrong?

2009-08-04 12:42:49
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Etz3l
Posts: 9103
Incept: 2007-06-26

Online
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Quote:
Ponzi Scheme: a fraudulent investing scam promising high rates of return with little risk to investors. The Ponzi scheme generates returns for older investors by acquiring new investors. This scam actually yields the promised returns to earlier investors, as long as there are more new investors. These schemes usually collapse on themselves when the new investments stop.

Any questions as to Krudlow's and CNBS incessant pumping and cheering?

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Treating the symptoms of financial corruption isn’t the same as removing the causes.

2009-08-04 12:43:09
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Jstanley01
Posts: 2565
Incept: 2008-07-30
A True American Patriot!
San Antonio, Texas
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What banks and other institutions deemed "too big to fail" have managed to do is CASH IN on what economist John Makin calls the "Greenspan Puts." Makin coined the term in the context of an VERY INSTRUCTIVE analogy that he made between the Fed and the banks on one hand, and a hedge fund and its traders on the other ("Risk and System Risk," September 2008):
Quote:
...
Hedge Funds and the Financial System
It is essential to understand how the credit crisis came about and created the underlying set of conditions whereby a counterparty run on a relatively small investment bank like Bear Stearns could have threatened the global financial system. More broadly, the answer to this question is important in understanding why the frequency of financial crises has been increasing since the Asian crisis flared in 1997.

A good start toward understanding the difference between ordinary risk and systemic risk is to ask how a hedge fund resembles the banking system--especially with respect to risk management--and how it does not. A generic hedge fund can be seen as a collection of traders, each of whom is charged with earning as much money as possible. To that end, the trader is provided with ceilings on the size of investment positions he or she can take and is given incentives in the form of an agreement whereby he or she retains a percentage of the profits earned for the firm. The fundamental risk-management problem for a hedge fund is related to the fact that traders do not personally share in losses, just in gains. An individual trader therefore has the incentive to take too much risk because he or she captures all of the upside of large winning trades without a downside for net losses. Specifically, if a trader loses over the course of a year, the company has to absorb the loss. The trader receives no bonus and may have to make up the loss in subsequent years, but the company absorbs the loss on a year-by-year basis. The "zero-bound problem" (again, my term) breaks into the headlines when a single trader, having taken far too much risk, loses so much money that the entire company is forced to either close or take a massive loss, while the downside for the trader is limited to dismissal from the company.

Risk management for a hedge fund, given this background, is relatively straightforward. First, traders are given limits on the size of positions they can take, and their activities relative to those limits are monitored. [EXACTLY WHY KARL HAS BEEN RAILING ABOUT THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT REPEAL AND JAILING THE FRAUDSTERS] (This is true in most cases. There are exceptions, however, as with the spectacular losses by an unsupervised trader at Société Générale at the end of 2007.) Sometimes traders press to exceed their predetermined trading limits. If they do so consistently and their returns become too volatile or too negative, traders are usually asked to take a "timeout." If the excessive risk-taking continues, the offending trader is dismissed. The important point here is that the trader's dismissal and the negative consequences of poor risk management or bad trades do not have systemic consequences. Rather, the losses are absorbed by the hedge fund, which may or may not prosper, depending on its risk management going forward. Further, dismissal of a trader who fails to manage risk is clearly in the interest of the hedge fund owner or manager who has a strong incentive to contain trading losses.

Now consider the statutory and regulatory problems referred to by Chairman Bernanke: risk management of the global financial and banking system. Banks and other financial institutions assume the role of individual traders, while central banks and regulators take on the role of hedge fund management. The incentives for banks and individual financial institutions to assume too much risk are similar to those of traders, especially in institutions deemed "too big to fail." The "Greenspan Put"--in which investors rely on the central bank's claims that it cannot identify market bubbles as they build but can contain the damage to financial markets after bubbles have burst--encourages a buildup of systemic risk. Regular readers of this publication will recall that in July 2007, just before the credit crisis intensified sharply, former Citicorp CEO Charles Prince said "as long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance." It is the compulsion for banks to "dance" while a bubble is inflating that creates systemic risk. Individual banks and investment banks know they are taking too much risk--recall the virtual disappearance of risk premiums during 2006 and early 2007--but they lose market share if they stop taking the risks that other institutions are taking to inflate the bubble further. The central banks' silence on a bubble encourages the process, as does its complicity to manage postbubble fallout once the bubble bursts. When the music stops, if you are too big to fail, the Federal Reserve helps to cushion the pain by sharply cutting interest rates, providing liquidity, and otherwise acting to contain systemic damage...

Banks and financial institutions individually strive to maximize profits while counting on the Greenspan Put to minimize the costs on the downside. For the systemic-risk managers who oversee the financial and regulatory framework that governs them, perhaps the trickiest part of their role is how to discipline the bad actors. Bear Stearns was a classic case in point. Bear Stearns behaved very much like a rogue trader, taking on far too much risk in the mortgage sector by starting up hedge funds specifically designed to take such risks even as the real estate bubble began to collapse. Regulators and system managers really had no means available to force Bear Stearns to take a timeout. [BECAUSE OF BANK DEREGULATION, DUH.] When the time came to "fire" them in March 2008, it was not possible simply to let them fail because of the systemic risks entailed by such a step.

Hazy Incentives for Systemic-Risk Managers
The other big breakdown in the analogy between risk management at a hedge fund and risk management in the banking and financial system concerns the incentives of the managers. In the case of a hedge fund, management is highly motivated to discipline traders who take too much risk because the managers have a large stake in the survival and prosperity of the fund itself. They want to weed out irresponsible traders, and they have the means to do so in ways that do not entail risk to other institutions or to the financial system. In fact, their diligent risk management is both in their interest and in the interest of the system at large.

In the case of the banking and financial system, however, the regulators and central banks that manage the financial and regulatory framework do not have the clearly defined self-interest of a hedge fund manager. In the vernacular, they do not have as much "skin in the game"--that is, personal risk and reward at stake--as hedge fund managers when it comes to risk management. In addition, the Greenspan Put framework--whereby bubbles are allowed to rise while central banks try to clean up the damage after the bubbles burst--reinforces the strategy of too much risk-taking by individual institutions run by managers whose compensation may not suffer overall if they can retain huge gains during a bubble buildup while cushioning losses after it bursts, especially if the Greenspan Put provides a successful hedge. Of course, the bursting of the housing bubble has been so violent that some managers have not survived, but most--with the notable exception of managers at Bear Stearns--have managed to hold on to gains accrued while the bubble was inflating.
...

http://www.aei.org/outlook/28565
So in essence, first Greenspan and now Bernanke, have been allowed to make the taxpayers of the United States unwitting counterparties in the hedge they have provided to whomever they deem to be "too big to fail." What Karl's Ticker deftly points out, is what the banks have done with all they have RAKED IN after the Greenspan Puts expired IN THE MONEY:
Quote:
No, real buying is just that - real buying from real retail investors who believe in the forward prospects for the economy and business, not funny-money Treasury and MBS buying by The Fed from "newly created bank reserves" funneled back into the market via high-speed computers. The latter is nothing more than a manufactured ramp job that will last only until "the boyz" get to the end of their rope(and yes, that rope does have an end)...
That rope's end may well entail a POLITICAL RESET is no tinfoil. Everyone who hedges -- whether it's me buying a SPY PUT, or Greenspan/Bernanke who are still selling SYSTEM-WIDE PUTS (just like they have been since 1997) -- requires an ultimate bagholder.

LOOK IN THE MIRROR, MR. AND MRS. AMERICA. IT'S YOU.

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...so in short, my fellow Texans, we must secede. "For the children..." --Me

Last modified: 2009-08-05 00:41:32 by jstanley01

2009-08-04 12:43:54
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Eaglewwit
Posts: 1889
Incept: 2007-11-30
SoCal
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Karl,

What is your opinion of TA in this environment? Does it still work? Hasn't it been screaming overbought for some time now?

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"Not even I imagined we would see trillions of dollars being created and given to the culprits as a means of allegedly "saving" the system. This is not mere Keynesianism; it is Keynesianism on steroids and crystal meth."
2009-08-04 12:43:58
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