RSS available
| MarketTicker Forums Read Message in Ticker |
User: Not logged on
|
| Top | Forum Top | Login | Control Panel | FAQ | Register | Logout |
| Showing Page 1 of 2 | First | 1 | 2 | Last |
| User Info | Here Comes Trouble: Three Problems in forum [Ticker] | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71366 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
|
http://market-ticker.org/archives/1358-H....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-21 09:06:46
Permalink | |||
|
Jpg Posts: 41 Incept: 2009-03-23 MI
|
I've been wondering for several years now what would happen when the Social Security Administration transitioned from being a profit-center for the federal government to a "loss-center", for lack of a better term. Looks like we're about to find out.
2009-08-21 09:13:12
Permalink | |||
|
Lordhumongous Posts: 1972 Incept: 2008-09-29 
USA
|
SS was a grifting operation for the government and the early recipients from day one. Ignoring the current funding issues, political support given the ever increasing FICA taxes and decreasing benefits and probability of receiving them would've led to it being ****canned sooner rather than later. I think it's as good as dead within ten years if not ten months. The only issue that concerns me is what happens politically, and are they going to eliminate FICA taxes when they eliminate SS. I imagine they'll screw 401K/IRA account holders to keep SS alive and increase FICA taxes by 50%. ---------- Freedom. Is there anything it can't do?
2009-08-21 09:36:46
Permalink | |||
|
Laserman Posts: 265 Incept: 2009-07-22 The 909 is fine! I love the Inland Empire! Banned
|
I forsee (unfortunately) tax increases. KD's words "lost revenue" are the red flag there. Well, besides the obvious, I do have my reasons for thinking that. A well known place of mine experienced a large natural disaster last year. Many walked away from their modest homes, and this is in a non-bubble area hard working blue collar town. I spoke to friend of mine the other day, whom is a high ranking county official. He said since the county is millions in the hole, there will be a large property tax increase hitting the presses within days to go into effect June 1, 2010. So, essentially, the rest of the county population is being forced into a bailout. And we all know higher taxes are exactly what's needed during a recession. (sarcasm) It never fails. They go broke, they take it out on us. I hope SS doesn't have the same future but status quo, how else are they going to "fix it"? ---------- I don't make the bombs we build, I make the bombs we build better...
2009-08-21 09:42:17
Permalink | |||
|
Themortgagedude Posts: 3928 Incept: 2007-12-17 
saint louis
|
No limits on income for FICA - should have been done a long time ago. Huge tax increase but WTF - I somehow see this as fair and it would stick me in the ass. But if they do that I would also like to see retirement age lifted to about 70 and medicare age too. If you're gonna fix it - THEN ****ING FIX IT. Another thing I would like to see is the employer half go to pay benefits for others and the employee half go into a retirement vehicle for the individual. Then if the individual earns more off his money than he would receive then he gets no supplemental. Also this should be transferable upon death to heirs.
---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-08-21 09:44:47
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71366 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
So long as the FICA fund is routinely raided via these "intergovernmental borrowings" there is no fix. Social Security has to be run like an actuary and own actual things, not have their money stolen every year. Unfortunately every President since Nixon has done this, and there is no indication they will stop until it blows up in their face. The problem is that everyone thinks it blows up in 2037, which is a long time off. They may get a rude surprise when it detonates within the next year or two. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-21 09:47:35
Permalink | |||
|
Scrood Posts: 1999 Incept: 2008-05-17
Green Shoots! Online
|
How about a one-time moving fee for seniors that live on SS? They can move in with their kids and use their reduced SS check to help pay their kid's mortgage... This will screw housing, but it will keep families in existing homes. Another variation would be to "encourage" seniors to share housing. ---------- When the **** hits the fan I'll be sitting on the can When the whip comes down
2009-08-21 09:48:57
Permalink | |||
|
Lordhumongous Posts: 1972 Incept: 2008-09-29
USA
|
TMD, they aren't interested in fixing it. SS is just like everything else in this country. If you view virtually everything the US Government does as a means to grift money from the general population and send it to their friends on Wall Street and the Military-Industrial complex it makes perfect sense. If you give up the notion that the government is your friend and wants to help you or protect the country it all makes perfect sense. They aren't going to fix it. They keep saying that SS is a "pay as you go system." Bull****. The whole point is to collect much more than you need for years, launder it through a "trust fund", then pass it out to your friends in WS and the MIC. They're either going to eliminate it and keep the taxes in place, or they will steal trillions from IRA/401K holders by exchanging their dollars for unmarketable "grifting certificates" in a "lockbox", send some of the cash to seniors and the rest to WS and the MIC. ---------- Freedom. Is there anything it can't do? Last modified:
2009-08-21 09:51:37 by lordhumongous
| |||
|
Markytom Posts: 217 Incept: 2009-02-19
|
No problem. The powerful US manufacturing base will create enough wealth to support the outlays. On second thought . . . Manufacturing Jobs Drop To Lowest Level Since 1941, Below 9% Of Workforce For The First Time http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2009.... Last modified:
2009-08-21 10:08:47 by markytom
| |||
|
Lordhumongous Posts: 1972 Incept: 2008-09-29
USA
|
The loss of our manufacturing base was yet another grifting operation. Asians wanted to grow faster than they could organically by keeping the dollar stronger than the market would otherwise dictate, DC and WS wanted to get rich. They got together and exchanged our manufacturing base for cheap baubles. Asians bought US Treasuries and US debt in general with their dollar surplus, preventing their currency from rising and ours from dropping. The purchases were made on Wall Street, which grifted trillions by creating one destructive bubble after another, and passed out a taste to DC. These bubbles raised the cost of employing Americans, further accelerating the loss of jobs. What's not to like? Well, now that grifting operation is coming to an end, just like Social Security. Over the last thirty years China has gone from a dirt-poor backwater with a few ****ty obsolete factories to a economic powerhouse with massive quantities of state of the art factories. We've gone from the world's richest nation with a HUGE trade surplus if you ignored oil, to a bubble ridden backwater with collapsing infrastructure, ****ty schools, no manufacturing, illegals and others running around shooting the place up, etc. All it cost the Chinese was about two trillion in soon to be worthless US debt. How much would it cost us to get back our manufacturing base? Much more than two trillion dollars. Why did we do it? "We" didn't, our political and financial leaders did it to us, while we engaged in pre-fabricated circle jerk "debates" with each other about red herrings like abortion, gun control, buttsex, immigration, flag burning, drugs, teenage pregnancy, pro torture, etc, etc. The American people are ****ing reactionary retards and royally deserve what is coming down the pike. Here's the next bubble: Fascism. The real kind, not the lite kind we've had the last ten years or so. ---------- Freedom. Is there anything it can't do? Last modified:
2009-08-21 10:03:01 by lordhumongous
| |||
|
Gst Posts: 225 Incept: 2007-12-25 NW Georgia
|
Earlier this year, Chris Martenson did a couple of articles about SS going negative in the short term: http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/socia.... http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/confi.... ---------- "It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton, The Cleveland Press, 3/1/1921
2009-08-21 10:01:08
Permalink | |||
|
Kidhorn Posts: 88 Incept: 2009-08-11 Rockville, MD
|
SS will not go broke. Or more precisely, it will continue to pay as long as the US Gov is able to print USD. There's no way the gov't is going to stiff retirees. I wouldn't be surprised if SS was already in the red. I don't believe anything the gov't reports. If they think telling bad news will have an adverse effect on the market, they won't tell it. It's worse than communism. At least in communist countries everyone knows they're being lied to.
2009-08-21 10:03:33
Permalink | |||
|
Themortgagedude Posts: 3928 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
|
Humongous - the theft of my 401k money will be done at the point of a gun. It will not be accomplished with the swoosh of a presidents pen.
---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-08-21 10:03:53
Permalink | |||
|
Tritumi Posts: 84 Incept: 2008-11-29 tokyo
|
It is either iron(y) or tinfoil that I received today my "Your Social Security Statement". Since I moved this spring and put the new address on my !040 to IRS, the fact that this statement comes to the new address can only mean IRS and SSA are now data base linked.
Last modified:
2009-08-21 10:06:30 by tritumi
| |||
|
Lordhumongous Posts: 1972 Incept: 2008-09-29
USA
|
TMD: that would just cause TPTB to inflate the fascism bubble faster.
---------- Freedom. Is there anything it can't do?
2009-08-21 10:06:09
Permalink | |||
|
Eleua Posts: 9906 Incept: 2007-07-05
N 47.72/ W 122.55
|
Quote:SS will not go broke. Or more precisely, it will continue to pay as long as the US Gov is able to print USD. Guys, let's not perpetuate the myth of "government printing." The .gov is conducting forced borrowing to move cash from the future to the now. If they wanted to "print," they would have done it long ago. ---------- http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/
2009-08-21 10:10:04
Permalink | |||
|
Soar07 Posts: 118 Incept: 2009-05-04
|
Lord Humongous My sentiments exactly - The Chinese are not our 'globalist' friends, they have helped TPTB destroy our country's industrial base. ---------- Time to put the USA first! Stop Globalization, Illegal Immigration, Outsourcing. Buy American. Enforce the rule of law. Drop kick political correctness! What else can I say.... check out my blog indyamerican@blogspot.com
2009-08-21 10:11:56
Permalink | |||
|
Themortgagedude Posts: 3928 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
|
At the point of a gun Humongous. Thats the only way they get it. You think I'm kidding and that will go on you are f'n dead wrong. I will personally lead a revolt upon the Capital at that point. I've been talking that we need a peaceful revolt for a year now. They take my 401k and it won't be peaceful. And I guarantee you I will not have a problem gathering followers at that point. If it is gonna happen lets get it started now - while Bwarney Fwank is still there. I'll personally put the boiled rope around that arrogant little ******s neck.
---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-08-21 10:18:23
Permalink | |||
|
Laserman Posts: 265 Incept: 2009-07-22 The 909 is fine! I love the Inland Empire! Banned
|
Another problem with SS is that everyone of age collects it, and why not? It's own benefit is also it's demise. If you've paid into a fund all your life, you want to get your $$$ back no matter how much you have saved up and in assets. I know retires with well into the 7 digits in solid savings and assets who still collect that puny little check every month, but again why not? Ya paid into it. It's not fair to make them pay and reward saving by denying benefits, but you also cant have them not pay into it because that defeats the "socialistic purpose".
---------- I don't make the bombs we build, I make the bombs we build better...
2009-08-21 10:21:17
Permalink | |||
|
Megatoxic Posts: 31 Incept: 2009-08-05
usa
|
Gen- In the scenario you're describing, wherein the dollar crashes to as low as 40, what happens to equities?
2009-08-21 10:22:22
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71366 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
Mega: You get a parabolic spike as you're seeing now originally, but with a severe dollar crisis you also get an equity crash. As in "near zero." ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-21 10:23:39
Permalink | |||
|
Megatoxic Posts: 31 Incept: 2009-08-05
usa
|
Gen: So the Great Gamble that Bernanke & Co. are making is that they can effect a controlled devaluation of the dollar, thereby spiking equity and other asset values and triggering a resumption of the old debt-fueled consumption cycle? Last modified:
2009-08-21 10:27:14 by megatoxic
| |||
|
Spigot Posts: 109 Incept: 2009-03-02
|
I believe "Central Bankers" have considered persistent inflation as a tool for taxing savers for not putting their capital into "productive" uses. In this case, as we have seen just starting with these bailouts, any bond obligations will be monetized as needed. This garrantees impoverishment of those who do not have pricing power within the broader markets, particularly low income and fixed income folks. When Reagan embraced "borrow and spend" Republicanism, I pretty much gave up hope for this nation's future.
2009-08-21 10:26:56
Permalink | |||
|
Genesis Posts: 71366 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
|
Not a chance Mega, as the credit intermediation system remains broken, but yes. The only way to get where they want to go is fix the credit intermediation system. This requires clearing the bad debts ("bad assets"); since they're in HOUSES, you'd have to reinflate the housing bubble (not the stock market) to pull it off. That has never worked through history - the bubble that bursts is NEVER the sector that leads out next time. That's the fallacy in trying to prop up loans against the popped asset class - it can't and won't work, as Japan found out. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-21 10:28:14
Permalink | |||
|
Bluebird Posts: 524 Incept: 2008-05-02
|
Kidhorn - spouse says the same thing. Nothing is going to go broke. Not FDIC, not SS, not his pension because PBGC would take it over, PBGC wouldn't go broke either. Nothing will go broke, because the government will print the money that is due us. He is not worried at all. He just continues to spend, spend, spend, and thinks my 'bunker' of canned goods is the best grocery store around.
2009-08-21 10:31:15
Permalink | |||
| Top | Forum Top | Login | Control Panel | Logout |
| Showing Page 1 of 2 | First | 1 | 2 | Last |