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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archi....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-10-28 09:34:48
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Emdeplam Posts: 1419 Incept: 2008-01-10 
USA/Germany
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Everyone loves to see the Hedgies get burned until we find out which pension fund, school district or 'safe' bank is left holding the bag :-)
---------- http://www.alizee-forum.com/gallery/
2008-10-28 09:43:59
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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This was a clear case of market manipulation and the folks responsible should be under indictment. This isn't about burning hedgies (or not). It is about manipulating markets, which looks pretty clear from this vantage point. I call bull**** on Porsche's ability to finance the contemplated transaction, which means the announcement was for the express purpose of fomenting a short squeeze. That's a felony in America. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-10-28 09:49:03
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Padrino Posts: 2207 Incept: 2008-01-16
Prison
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maybe one of the shorter, and I don't know if there is a connection with VW, but this is interesting, did't read yesturday. ............................................ Deutsche Bank Derivatives Loss May Top $400 Million (Update2) By Jacqueline Simmons and Jonathan Keehner Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Bank AG, Germany's biggest bank, lost more than $400 million on equity derivatives trades as stock markets headed for their biggest rout since the 1930s, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said. The loss, equal to almost half of the Frankfurt-based company's second-quarter revenue from equity sales and trading, is a black eye for Richard Carson, global head of equity derivatives, and may signal more job losses at the bank. ``Everybody assumed most of the job cuts would be in fixed income, but when you incur a loss of more than $400 million in equity derivatives that might warrant cuts across asset classes as well as fixed income,'' said Bahadour Moussa, who specializes in derivatives recruitment at London-based Pelham International. continue here...http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=n.... ---------- "Every man is the architect of his own fortune."
2008-10-28 09:53:35
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Emdeplam Posts: 1419 Incept: 2008-01-10
USA/Germany
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"That's a felony in America." - be thrilled to see any market where a bullish rumor is actually prosecuted. ---------- http://www.alizee-forum.com/gallery/
2008-10-28 09:54:56
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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You and I both. Nonetheless, fomenting a short squeeze is against the law here. No idea if it is over there, but it is here. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-10-28 09:57:23
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Emdeplam Posts: 1419 Incept: 2008-01-10
USA/Germany
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I am quite sure we have a law or regulation covering any aspect of our lives :-) this is Germany after all. I am not sure about this instance, but the VW Law and other measures put in place to 'protect' German companies may have facillitated this game. In Germany (as in much of Europe) the rules don't apply to much in areas of 'national interest'
---------- http://www.alizee-forum.com/gallery/
2008-10-28 10:00:29
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Padrino Posts: 2207 Incept: 2008-01-16
Prison
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That there is a manipulation is clear. look at the pref shares of VW, down in line with the market : http://de.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=VOW3..... and the ordinary one, the liquid one http://de.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=VOW.D.... ---------- "Every man is the architect of his own fortune."
2008-10-28 10:02:54
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Emdeplam Posts: 1419 Incept: 2008-01-10
USA/Germany
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Yep, the play was long perferred and short the common. Talk about getting it in both ends :-)
---------- http://www.alizee-forum.com/gallery/
2008-10-28 10:03:59
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Emdeplam Posts: 1419 Incept: 2008-01-10
USA/Germany
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German Financial Regulator Is `Analyzing' Volkswagen Trading By Chris Reiter http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2.... Oct. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Germany's financial regulator BaFin said it's analyzing trading in Volkswagen AG shares but has not opened a formal inquiry into whether the stock is being manipulated. ``We are in the process of analyzing Volkswagen trading, but thus far there is no formal investigation,'' Anja Engelland, a spokeswoman for Bonn-based BaFin, said today in a telephone interview. ``Pure cash-settled options do not require disclosure'' under German law. Results from the regulator's analysis are unlikely this week, she said. Volkswagen became the world's biggest company by market value today after Porsche SE announced plans to raise its stake in the German carmaker to 75 percent, triggering demand from short-sellers. ---------- http://www.alizee-forum.com/gallery/
2008-10-28 10:41:16
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Mango Posts: 240 Incept: 2008-02-08
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Quote:This caused VW's stock to rise by eight hundred percent in the space of two days. Typo: I think you meant dollars not percent
2008-10-28 10:49:41
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Golani Posts: 22 Incept: 2008-10-13
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Today it's us's turn for the stockmarket to pull a VW.This rally smells fishy.
2008-10-28 16:09:24
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Allclear Posts: 4270 Incept: 2007-09-18
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"That's a felony in America." Well since there is absolutely no transparencies in the U.S. also, there are many many felons walking around here with more than pocket change jingling in their pockets. Maybe someone should look into the currency manipulations today which was one factor for the markets exploding today. And its too bad for the hedge funds...no love lost there. They deserve what they get, and a Chrysler building sounds about right. ---------- Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view...Obi-Wan
2008-10-28 17:10:03
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Tajak2012 Posts: 108 Incept: 2007-10-18
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The VW board of directors get a visit......... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC9gQO9Xy.... Last modified:
2008-10-28 17:43:22 by tajak2012
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Maple Posts: 4463 Incept: 2007-09-03
Southern California Online
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Typo alert: It's Deutsche Bank.
2008-10-28 17:52:14
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Oddball Posts: 4 Incept: 2008-10-14
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I don't see it. Porsche has been gradually increasing their stake in VW over the past year and they have made clear last summer that they intend to get a majority stake in the company. The plan being they want to own more than 50% before year-end. There has been a steady flow of press releases about this since March and some press releases by the European Commission last summer that approval was given. The reason for Porsche to do this is because they fear that else VW is being taken over by Hedgefunds that will split up the company and try to sell the parts individually. This would be very bad for Porsche since their operation and VW's are so much intertwined (parts/joint car dealerships and infrastructure). So they decided to take over the company in stead to protect their interest and they are right on track in their planning. They announced that they own 42.6% and have an OPTION on an additional 31.5% and they intend to exercise PART of that before year end to get above 50%. Any serious investor could have seen this coming since 24 March 2007, see the press release for that. The problem is now that Hedgies ASSUMED that Porsche would not acquire the additional stock because of the crisis and GAMBLED on that and shorted the stock. So they gambled and lost since Porsche announced they are going ahead anyway, crisis or no crisis. In my mind that's sound business. Though luck for the shorters but I'd say: be a man and swallow!
2008-10-28 17:54:05
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Genesis Posts: 71435 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Oddball, Porsche can't fund the exercise. They might want to, but they can't. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-10-28 18:04:13
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Oddball Posts: 4 Incept: 2008-10-14
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Gen: They may just pull it off, the Porsche and Piëch families, old boys network that would make Paulson and Ben blush like girls..really. Time will tell anyway. I believe I read somewhere on the German Financial Times that they already have the needed credit lines open. I've been reading up on this in German but there is an interesting commentary on http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0bef5d8c-a528-.... But my point is that, while I fully agree with you there isn't much transparency (and no, there is no law against it since the options were paid in cash), in this case Hedgies could have seen this coming. At least I did and I'm a complete n00b ;-) It's a big gamble to short a stock that you know is supposed to go up because of a well known intended takeover and also has under 6% free trade. If they didn't know this, they haven't been doing any homework. Love your tickers BTW. Big hat tip! Last modified:
2008-10-28 19:18:39 by oddball
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Tz Posts: 465 Incept: 2007-09-18 
Southfield, MI but in Owatonna, MN for a while
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We had to ban shortsales on hundreds of financial stocks, like CVS to get such a pop. Ingenious! One of the parallel problems which Jim Puplava has covered is naked shorting. And I think a lot of that goes on (considering the not uncommon occurrence of more than 100% of shares being voted at shareholder meetings). I don't know how bad the problem is but I don't think it is insignificant (both for stocks and for commodities where "good delivery" are certificates without physical). There is an equivalent if not worse lack of transparency on who owns how many shares of what, and how many are borrowed. The DTC probably doesn't even know. And that is the US, not the Caymans. (And the Caymans would probably be less problem to invade and grab the hedge funds' $10 Trillion to pay off our treasuries - especially if they exchanged fake shares for cash). So I would expect more of these short-squeezes, but it is a sign of the opposite of a healthy market. ---------- "I am become debt, destroyer of worlds"
2008-10-28 19:16:52
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