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| User Info | Health Reform: Who Are They Trying To Fool? in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1187-H....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-07-07 12:24:55
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Tesla Posts: 8179 Incept: 2008-04-03 
Delaware
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Most excellent ticker. However, when discussing health insurance I'd lay some major blame on state insurance boards that mandate coverage you don't really want to purchase but must to have any policy, and other rules that prohibit buying health insurance across state lines. Why can't I buy a policy from Idaho or Virginia if I like it better ? Why do I have to buy insurance for 30 days of mental health treatment ? And so on. ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-07-07 12:30:54
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Ssg263 Posts: 100 Incept: 2009-01-07
NY
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The HMO Act of 1973 must be repealed in my opinion. How is health care ever going to get cheaper when an oligarchy of giant insurance companies is setting compensation instead of doctors and patients? It's a 3-way racket with the insurance co's, drug co's, and doctors reaping benefits. This violates one of the most basic laws of economics and Obama's plan does nothing to address it.
2009-07-07 12:31:08
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Lowbeyond Posts: 6902 Incept: 2008-02-11
CO Online
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Genesis wrote..Common HMO/PPO plans are not insurance - they are pre-paid medical care Yep. But that is gonna be a tough mentality to crack. ---------- Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?! Last modified:
2009-07-07 12:42:10 by lowbeyond
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End_the_bubbles Posts: 92 Incept: 2009-03-25 CA.
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Great ticker. I'd just like to take issue with the term "Health care" - I believe it should be referred to as SICK CARE! Aside from that semantic issue, I also feel strongly that people need to be educated on LIVING A HEALTHIER LIFESTYLE. People eat like crap, don't exercise and don't really do anything to take care of themselves thinking it's all the Doctor's responsibility. That is LUDICROUS! Health is OUR responsibility, not some external force. Certainly there are exceptions with various diseases, etc., but by and large, we can have a tremendous impact on our own health by doing the right things consistently, most importantly - diet and exercise..... This is something not frequently discussed, but is very important IMO......
2009-07-07 12:42:49
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Popothebright Posts: 1496 Incept: 2008-05-16 
Bangkok ( I'm out. So long, New York )
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Quote:
Well... with all due respect... I don't know how things work in Florida, but as a business owner with plenty of legal fees, I beg to differ on this point. Every law firm I've ever worked with here in Manhattan is very adept at surprise charges. I just received another "surprise" bill for $8k. Sure, part of it makes sense: I know this firm sticks you from $400-600/hr for attorneys fees. And I know how much phone time I had, and how many guys were on the call. But then there's the "Research Time", and "Conversation with...", and the occasional "Tax Expert", "Intellectual property blah blah", etc. There are always huge parts of the bills that are completely unknown until they hit you with them. Not to mention, you're paying a retainer so the power of the purse is taken from you from the get-go.... All you can eventually do is pull up stakes and use a new firm, but that's costly too for other reasons... I bitch and moan, but it's the cost of doing business in NYC. ---------- "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government" -- The Declaration of Independence
2009-07-07 12:43:32
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Jstanley01 Posts: 2573 Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas Online
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End_the_bubbles: Amen. The best way to deal with the system is to walk as wide around it as possible for as long as possible. Edit: Then die quick.
---------- ...so in short, my fellow Texans, we must secede. "For the children..." --Me Last modified:
2009-07-07 12:46:23 by jstanley01
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Rickysa Posts: 293 Incept: 2007-08-22
Southern Pines, NC
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Quote:and such a forced system will put a stop to the discriminatory practices of insurers, physicians, hospitals and others in the medical field who commonly bill private parties ten times what health "insurance" plans or Medicare pay for the very same procedure Pardon the thick head on this end, but the suggestion put forth here, that fees should match Medicare?....I don't work with Medicare, but speaking for Medicaid...the reimbursement rates really suck. We used to accept Medicaid, but due to the loopholes one must jump through, the delayed (or never sent) payments, and the fact that it paid less than half the "Usual Customary Fees" in the community, put a stop to that.
2009-07-07 12:51:08
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Monkeybutt Posts: 27 Incept: 2009-04-09
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Health Care: another crime on the lower classes
2009-07-07 12:54:34
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Viper Posts: 717 Incept: 2007-08-28
Madison, WI
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Sounds like an excellent plan to me.
---------- http://www.mccotterforpresident.com/
2009-07-07 12:56:02
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Amgrace Posts: 1304 Incept: 2008-02-15
New Castle, PA 16101
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Great ticker. Health care made simple.
---------- "In an informal survey at a recent meeting of 150 or so institutions, those admitting to feeling nervous about underexposure to risk outnumbered those feeling too aggressive by a neat 10 to 1! This also suggests how a speculative rally can keep going longer than reasonable investors expect." - Jeremy Grantham 07/2009
2009-07-07 13:03:08
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Quote:Pardon the thick head on this end, but the suggestion put forth here, that fees should match Medicare?....I don't work with Medicare, but speaking for Medicaid...the reimbursement rates really suck. We used to accept Medicaid, but due to the loopholes one must jump through, the delayed (or never sent) payments, and the fact that it paid less than half the "Usual Customary Fees" in the community, put a stop to that. What's "usual and customary" when the fees are set through collusion? See, there is no such thing. I charge a different amount to program a computer than someone else does. My skill is unique, and for a set of 10 doctors, so are theirs. Set a price, if Medicare doesn't want to pay that much, then Medicare doesn't do business with you. It is unlawful to cost-shift services as is done every day in EVERY OTHER LINE OF BUSINESS than this one. When done in collusion with others it will literally lead to JAIL TIME in other lines of work. It is time to stop this **** because THIS is why health care is so ******n expensive for the common people! ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-07-07 13:05:20
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Icanhasbailout Posts: 2170 Incept: 2009-03-10
Imaginationland
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I have a particular problem with sharing the risks of people who deliberately engage in activities that pose extremely high risk (and in some cases, the absolute certainty) of massive care costs. The problem with mandatory health expense pooling (whether it be through a government plan or through forced purchase of private plans) is that it enslaves the prudent to subsidize the most foolish and reckless behaviors imaginable. Who here is prepared to put me in jail if I refuse to cover the drug and treatment costs of a Viagra-popping, bug-chasing homosexual? ---------- I can has TARP? http://icanhastarp.com
2009-07-07 13:10:21
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Mikeit83 Posts: 265 Incept: 2009-06-19 East Coast
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Gen- I completely agree with set prices that are posted. I had not thought about that before- but it makes sense. However, I disagree with it being illegal to discriminate against certain characteristics that affect ones health. For instance, if your fat- you either lose weight- or pay more in health insurance. If you smoke- you either quit (and subject yourself to monthly test to verify that you have quit- OR you pay more. Thats how it works at my company. They charge extra money on your premiums if you smoke. And a heavy penalty if you lie about it. I am selfish. I dont want to pay for coverage of people who are fat or smoke. They, statistically, require more health care because of their own behaviors. I refuse to pay for it.
2009-07-07 13:11:21
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Zzt Posts: 983 Incept: 2007-06-26
Glendale az
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"If the health lobby won't cut out the nonsense and work for this sort of change to the system then I am forced to advocate for full nationalization of the entire health system, effectively placing everyone under Medicare." I have recently conceded that something must be done about health care. That concession shocked me because I realized that it probably meant the involvement of the most inefficient POS alive : the United States Government. I think your Ticker is great but I think the chance of your reforms is close to zero. I was kind of shocked when you made that statement 'cause it seems out of character. Without initiation of your reforms, I guess we both have to be resigned to the fact that Dr. Gov will be our new health care provider.
2009-07-07 13:11:36
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Where 'ya getting that you have to buy Dgordon? Where 'ya getting that plans can't have exclusions? Quite to the contrary - that's SPECIFICALLY IN THE PROPOSAL - that they MUST be allowed to do so. You're allowed to exclude SMOKERS but you can't discriminate in pricing. Individual pricing is horse**** - if you want to offer a "non-smoker" program that's fine. What you can't do is force people to submit to a medical examination and then "rate" them as a consequence - nope - the price is <X> with the following EXTERNALLY-OBSERVABLE requirements. If the Health Industry will not do the right thing, then the only solution is a FORCED nationalization of the entire mess. We CANNOT continue to have a system in which open racketeering is practiced on the backs of Americans using their HEALTH as the lever to force compliance with the extortion. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me Last modified:
2009-07-07 13:15:03 by genesis
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Kylafoon Posts: 719 Incept: 2009-02-05
Zombie Portal Lookout
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Excellent Ticker! I have never viewed medical billing in that light. Call it brainwashing. Your solutions would absolutely work! But, like most of our crazy world today, your solutions make too much sense. The ONLY positive I see for Gov't run healthcare is that it would instantly eardicate 99% of ambulance chasing lawyers. Tort reform the ugly way, if you will. Uncle Sugar ain't gonna let a sleaze bag lawyer sue for medical malpractice. ---------- "...But whenever we see things done wildly, but taken tamely, then the State is growing insane..." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton 1910
2009-07-07 13:14:09
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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My wife is insured thru Boeing. Our county has only one ambulance service and conveniently Boeings insurer and the ambulance service have failed to reach an agreement on price and thus they do not cover ambulance service in our county. Wifey had kidney stones when I was away and needed to transported to hospital for treatment. When I got the bill for $517 for transporting her 5 miles I was ****ed. I called and talked to someone about what they would have charged Medicare. $170. I told them they could either accept $170 from me or they could kick dirt. They said they would hire a collection agency. I told em to make the call cause I would pay either $170 or nothing -their choice. Still haven't heard from the collection agency two years later. **** this multi layer pricing system. ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!" Last modified:
2009-07-07 13:16:14 by themortgagedude
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Otiswild Posts: 1341 Incept: 2009-03-09
Teegeeack
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Quote:If the health lobby won't cut out the nonsense and work for this sort of change to the system then I am forced to advocate for full nationalization of the entire health system, effectively placing everyone under Medicare. IFF every American is subject to it, every CEO, every politician, EVERYONE. And make private practice illegal. Then go long international airlines, as Americans fly to Poland or Grenada for their queue-jumping treatments and operations. ---------- It appears that the yard wolves has grown up. Are we finally finished with the colds dead winters?
2009-07-07 13:18:23
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Yep Otis, everyone. Canadian system - you're a citizen, you're covered. Period. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-07-07 13:19:29
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Kab Posts: 629 Incept: 2009-04-02 Colorado
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Quote:I am selfish. I dont want to pay for coverage of people who are fat or smoke. They, statistically, require more health care because of their own behaviors. I refuse to pay for it. Making insurance actually be insurance deals with most of this issue in the first place.
2009-07-07 13:19:39
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Icanhasbailout Posts: 2170 Incept: 2009-03-10
Imaginationland
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It doesn't matter what I buy or don't buy - if I consume anything health care related at all, the costs of those who engage in risky behaviors is offloaded to me, for the very reasons elaborated on in this ticker! There is no angle of participation for a prudent person that results in a fair deal - the costs get embedded right into the caregiver operation. The only ways around it are to have a doctor in your family who will give treatment for free, or to conduct the business off the books entirely. ---------- I can has TARP? http://icanhastarp.com
2009-07-07 13:19:56
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Throxxofvron Posts: 2672 Incept: 2009-02-17
The Land of Bilk & Money
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Karl, very interesting Ticker. I'm continually amazed at the Perpetual Motion Machine of Your Mind. To really be able to SHOP competitors for Health Care Services; -what a unique and simplifying concept! I'm gonna spread this idea around... ---------- DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
2009-07-07 13:19:58
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Exactly Kab. If they're forced to sell INSURANCE then you can pay for your routine and customary stuff out of pocket (and it will be cheaper to do so, because there is no indirection - ergo, you'll pay less to just do it out of pocket), but you have coverage for catastrophes. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-07-07 13:20:40
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Psgirl Posts: 3680 Incept: 2009-02-18
Online
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The good docs will love it because they will be able to charge more due to their excellent reputations. Everyone who cannot afford the good docs will go to the ****ty ones. Let's do it!!!
2009-07-07 13:23:28
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