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| User Info | Health Care FARCE Voted Up Last Night in forum [Ticker] | ||||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1599-H....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-11-08 12:39:29
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Gibbie Posts: 672 Incept: 2009-01-18 
Amerika
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Where are the judges??!!
---------- "There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society that to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction. And it does it in a manner which no man in a million is able to diagnose." -John M Keynes. WOULD YOU KINDLY!
2009-11-08 12:41:55
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Pwh Posts: 18 Incept: 2009-05-24 North Carolina
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Another discouraging day, the continued march into the Fourth Turning. By the end of the year her arm will be at full 45 degrees upwards.
2009-11-08 12:48:45
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Oxfordrick Posts: 2685 Incept: 2007-07-09
san diego
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Top rate of income tax up 5.4% on $500K/$1 million plus.
2009-11-08 12:50:33
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Rtfg Posts: 1917 Incept: 2007-06-26
Bazookaville Online
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<You know the answer here - nobody is going to take the risk of a multi-million dollar discrimination lawsuit. Your salary offer will be reduced, and if you are currently employed, you can forget about raises for a long time.> If this goes through, my two full time employees will be filing for unemployment. Ironically, they wanted this to pass. I may give them the option to take a pay cut that will zero out my cost.
2009-11-08 12:52:05
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Grumpygirl Posts: 799 Incept: 2008-09-18
Oregon
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I was talking to my Canadian friend last night about this. He likes and supports their health care system but when he read some of the details of this legislation, he was in shock. He told me "That's not universal health care. That's just the **** of your middle class". Since most of my friends and acquaintances are in favor of a universal health care system, I spend a lot of time trying to explain to them why this isn't.
2009-11-08 13:04:51
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Single-payer has problems, but this is far worse.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-11-08 13:06:07
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Gibbie Posts: 672 Incept: 2009-01-18
Amerika
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So can the senate still shoot this down? Wouldn't it just take a single senator to kill it with a filibuster? He could just start reading it from the first page until the session ends. I doubt he'd get past page 600. ---------- "There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society that to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction. And it does it in a manner which no man in a million is able to diagnose." -John M Keynes. WOULD YOU KINDLY!
2009-11-08 13:10:08
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Blackswan Posts: 3601 Incept: 2007-11-06
Ponzi Roller Coaster
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When is the Senate vote? Next Saturday night? Well at least they did not pass Cap and Trade yet. ----------
2009-11-08 13:10:49
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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You need 60 votes to cut off a filibuster in the Senate (the technical term is "cloture"); they will not attempt to bring it to the floor if they do not have the votes for cloture.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-11-08 13:14:30
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Doctormad Posts: 1801 Incept: 2007-09-09 
Ohio
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Rtfg, Did this version of the bill that passed include a mininum number of employees before the employer mandate kicks in? I know that was being kicked around earlier. It's hard to find details of what exactly is in the 2000 pages.
2009-11-08 13:17:37
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Alchemista2 Posts: 61 Incept: 2008-09-25 DC
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Doesn't state government do that by requiring car insurance?
2009-11-08 13:18:16
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Mangoelvis Posts: 250 Incept: 2009-07-11
Las Vegas, NV
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Most news sources I've heard so far say the senate won't be able to vote on this until 2010...of course that is only a few months away but it is an election year...and Reid is running for reelection with pretty bad poll numbers so far.
---------- A Venus Fly Trap is one of the only organisms that can be cannibalistic and vegetarian at the same time.
2009-11-08 13:20:01
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Quote:Doesn't state government do that by requiring car insurance? It is a "privilege" to drive a car. Is it a "privilege" to be alive? ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-11-08 13:22:56
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Gibbie Posts: 672 Incept: 2009-01-18
Amerika
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Quote:Is it a "privilege" to be alive? According to the Gov't it is. Ever heard of abortion? ---------- "There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society that to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction. And it does it in a manner which no man in a million is able to diagnose." -John M Keynes. WOULD YOU KINDLY!
2009-11-08 13:27:23
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Alchemista2 Posts: 61 Incept: 2008-09-25 DC
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What happens when you die? Are you required to have your remains disposed of or buried? Is there a government option to do this or are you essentially required to pay a private company to satisfy the requirements of the government? (I'm just trying to see if there is an already an example of this. Precedent is important and is one reason I don't like it). Another criticism I felt was that as they passed the no-abortion-funding amendment, doesn't that just show proof that the government can and will make critical decisions on what you can/cannot do with these "government-approved" health insurance programs? In 20 years from now, if you can extend your life 50 years, or whatever else, the government has already shown on day 1 that they can decide what is/isn't acceptable for health insurance - that is scary.
2009-11-08 13:28:55
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Etz3l Posts: 9103 Incept: 2007-06-26
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So when will the Goldman Sachs thieves start running hospitals?
---------- Treating the symptoms of financial corruption isn’t the same as removing the causes.
2009-11-08 13:31:03
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Gizmodo Posts: 1146 Incept: 2009-04-15
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Great summary, Karl. Regarding the rationale they are using for the Constitutionality of this piece of crap: they're bringing out everyone's favorite abused canard, the "commerce clause". I'm sure James Madison, Thomas Jefferson and everyone else intended for this to mean the government could impose the purchase of a product or service, on threat of imprisonment, if it "crossed state lines". These people have no shame!
---------- "Hide the decline": the policy of climate fraudsters and government fraudsters alike. Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents...
2009-11-08 13:31:39
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Yaldor Posts: 1430 Incept: 2008-05-17
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What is wrong in American health care ? The whole idea that employers should provide health care - even long before this bill. Let the consumer buy what he needs. Health is a service and even a right - it is not an "insurance" issue. kick insurance and employer out of the Health biz and the cost charged would come down. ---------- For every crash the probability of someone showing that he predicted it is near 1 . For every prediction of an imminent crash the probability of it being correct is almost zero Last modified:
2009-11-08 13:34:34 by yaldor
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Samadams Posts: 358 Incept: 2008-12-03
San Antonio, TX Online
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Gibbie, the judges can't get involved until the thing is signed into law by der Obafuhrer. I suspect a suit is ready and waiting to have a few blanks filled in, and will be filed the next morning, with the basis being at least partially that Congress lacks the authority to compel anyone to buy health insurance, or to penalize them if they don't. I don't remember which one of our arrogant overlord-wannabee ****s refused to even answer the "where's your authority" question - repeatedly - but I hope that the Supremes and (more importantly) his constituents jam it very far up his fascist ass, twisting all the way. I know, I know, I need to be less reticent about my views, and to really say what I mean. Sorry, I'm working on it. :>) Last modified:
2009-11-08 13:42:37 by samadams
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Az Posts: 1659 Incept: 2008-09-22
Looking down the Rabbit Hole
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I'm still not certain what this HC plan is, because I haven't read the entire doc. Nevertheless, you made a point in your summary that resonates deep inside about the quality of life in the last year and days of one's life. Like you, I would rather make that decision and action myself with the aid of medication made available to make any transformation easier. My worst fear is to be a zombie in a nursing home, indeed, that is NOT living. However, if one has the desire and means to provide their own monetary care for support, so be it, that's there choice ... it's all about freedom of choice, as long as you are the one paying for the care. Much like elective cosmetic surgery, fine as long as the individual is responsible for it. One of your paragraphs needs repeating: Quote:The fact that 90% of your health care spending happens in the last year of your life. We must have a societal conversation on this issue, and determine what society's responsibility is for that last year. I argue that the answer to that question is in fact zero - we all begin to die the moment we are born, and yet none of us know exactly when the clock will expire in advance. As a consequence a perfect separation at that "last year" is not possible, but there are some realities we can - and must - face. First among them is that when you are in declining health, irrespective of your age, you do not have the right to impose your desire for additional hours, days or months of life on the back of others. You have the absolute right to expend any or all of your own resources in pursuit of that goal, but you have no right to reach into my or anyone else's pocket to do so. There are literally thousands of instances every day across this nation where persons who are in their waning hours or days - persons where the outcome is, within medical certainty - known - are hooked to machines and monitors in hospital beds that cost tens of thousands of dollars a day, simply because they do not have to pay for that last hour out of their own resources. This must end. We are a compassionate nation, but this is not compassion - it is barbarism. When my time comes I should be offered as much pain medication as I desire to take, including a sufficient amount to render me unconscious either in effect or fact - but I should have no right to expend any amount of society's funds beyond that pallative medication and care. While this would not save 90% of the nation's health care expense, it would save 30% or more, and we can do it right now, without any impact whatsoever on treatment and care that has a reasonable chance of resulting in a cure of the patient's condition. ---------- Whistleblowers R my heros
2009-11-08 13:38:44
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Musashi Posts: 2950 Incept: 2007-11-06 Behind the Irony Curtain
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If you search "medical tourism" you will see that there are any number of options to get very high quality medical care at fixed all inclusive prices about 80-90% lower then the procedure done in the US without counting tacked on charges. Strange how when the hospitals have to eat it there are much fewer complications. An ever increasing number of people are using this option, as the word starts to spread that the quality of care in quite a few countries like India, Thailand, Mexico and Argentina is as good or better then in the US. The reason being that with cash U$S one has access to the very top facilities there and they are staffed by people trained in the US and Europe. A normal person or one without a gold plated insurance plan usually has no access to the top facilities in the US and the help is usually poorly trained foreigners. They are trying to prevent people from using the medical travel option because they want to retain the profits for all the useless middlemen and accessories while providing free medical for tens of millions of blacks and illegals. Once these are pushed onto the top facilities the whole system degenerates like everything else. The result might just be that the quality productive people still engage in medical travel, but will not bother to come back to live under an extortionist regime.
2009-11-08 13:41:33
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Sean Posts: 365 Incept: 2009-04-21 Phoenix - Go Sheriff Joe!
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Quote:Also left unaddressed in The House Bill (again, intentionally) are two other factors that serve to together comprise more than half of our spending on medical care. These are:... I don't disagree with those two reasons / facts but in addition I want to know how much of the US's healthcare spending is done on people who eat a **** diet and /or don't exercise! I know, I know this gets into legislating what you cannot eat / can eat by taxing sugar/fat, etc. Where does personal responsibility come into play here???? ps. I've read that most of the cancers / diseases / diabeties, etc comes from poor diet and/orlack of exercise. ---------- How long before we all Go Galt? Last modified:
2009-11-08 13:42:34 by sean
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Janedeaux Posts: 9 Incept: 2009-09-16 Mississippi
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I am appalled at congress's complete disregard of their voters wishes. I am beginning to think they will declare themselves congressmen and president for life before the next election. Its the only thing that makes sense for their actions.
---------- "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join me as we try to change it." Barak Obama
2009-11-08 13:43:23
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Gizmodo Posts: 1146 Incept: 2009-04-15
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That's an important point. Despite clearly knowing that the majority of Americans are opposed to this piece of crap bill, they still foisted it on us anyways. That really shows you who they are concerned about, eh? Not the citizens. They're more beholden to their banker buddies, the insurance companies, and every other group that benefits on the backs of the taxpayer.
---------- "Hide the decline": the policy of climate fraudsters and government fraudsters alike. Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents...
2009-11-08 13:51:20
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