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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1064-G....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-27 08:35:13
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Pika-steph Posts: 39200 Incept: 2007-09-11 
^Why I keep^ fighting; so he is not fighting for nothing.
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Ahh... 1994 wasn't so bad. 
---------- Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org  "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
2009-05-27 08:40:36
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Bozonian Posts: 14033 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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They really don't give a rats ass about Treasuries. That game is just being used to draw this out as long as possible. If Treasury rates go too high, Ben will just buy them down. It's brute force and until commodity producers raise their prices there are no real world forces acting to stop Ben from creating money supply, as much as he wants, whenever he wants. ---------- I'm so depressed about outsourcing I called the suicide hotline and got a call center in Pakistan. They got all excited and asked me if I could drive a truck. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
2009-05-27 08:46:05
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Timbo Posts: 1132 Incept: 2008-10-10
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typo: "and rehashing is the for CNBC"
---------- http://mises.org/story/770 http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html If you don't fly the plane and find a place to land, then God will find a place to park you.
2009-05-27 08:46:08
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Solnow Posts: 829 Incept: 2009-03-02 My Market Model
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What are the long term legal ramifications of these procedures? Can't these modifications to the debt structure be moved beyond GM and into the greater corporate world? I can see lawyers having a field day with this. And if so, what does that do to the corporate bond market?
---------- Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. HOPE is for sissies
2009-05-27 08:46:29
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Cabbage_the_cat Posts: 51 Incept: 2009-03-28
Atlanta, GA
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Thanks KD, The policy makers have shown that they are especially good at kicking the can down the road. It may in fact be the ONLY thing they're good at. The more they delay the reconciliation with reality, the more dramatic that reconciliation will be. Yea us, we've avoided chemo for another day. We're saved.
2009-05-27 08:49:43
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Jubber Posts: 4242 Incept: 2007-07-05 
UK
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El-Erian on CNBC now, looks and sounds very worried, guess he's the wrong way round?
---------- "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce "The Emperor realized that the people were right but could not admit to that. He though it better to continue the procession under the illusion that anyone who couldn't see his clothes was either stupid or incompetent." Hans Christia
2009-05-27 08:50:07
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Flapdoodle Posts: 659 Incept: 2008-01-25
La Serena, Chile
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A great ticker. Its almost like the US is trying out all the stupid moves made by UK right after WWII - they nationalized a huge swath of British industry (most of it horribly obsolete) all running huge losses...
---------- --Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors. - African Proverb Last modified:
2009-05-27 08:52:35 by flapdoodle
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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The implications are that our economy and government spending is forced back to the early to mid 1990s in size, quite possibly in a very rapid and destructive fashion. In fact that is exactly what I expect to happen, and the longer we keep ****ing around, the worse it will get. We could end up with our economy back to the early 1980s in terms of GDP if we're not careful. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-27 08:53:16
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Tesla Posts: 8181 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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I've yet to hear any analysis from ANYONE on the two following items of interest to me, since they show up in every discussion of recovery, recession and depression: 1) what is the current GDP projection - 12 trillion/year, 10 trillion/year - based on current market conditions 2) what "should" GDP be ex excessive .gov expenditure and credit creation - 8 trillion/year ? 10 ? ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-05-27 08:53:33
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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You haven't? I've opined on it several times going back over two years Tesla! The short-form was repeated in this Ticker. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-27 08:55:13
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Wisc-xc Posts: 4828 Incept: 2007-07-14
outside chicago Online
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Given the Obama administration's lawlessness here, I can see this tied up in court for years. That won't bode well for the so called leaner and meaner GM.
2009-05-27 09:02:02
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Cash-out Posts: 2343 Incept: 2007-10-23
Live Free or Die - NH
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Genesis said; 'If President Obama can "ex-cathedra" change the priority of creditors in a bankruptcy action, effectively engaging in selective default of debt, why should governments and private investors - such as China and Saudi Arabia - believe we might not do the same thing after using the money we borrow from them, when we find that we cannot pay our debts, just as GM can't pay theirs?' SWF's are not Pensions or little old ladies, they are part of the Team of the Future, the ones with the low cost mfg'ing, oil, resources - Armies... Screwing your customers (our Citizenry) is apparently preferible to screwing your Partners (Other .Govs'), 'apparently', we'll see.. ---------- More prepared than ready. Last modified:
2009-05-27 09:05:28 by cash-out
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Cawoodruff Posts: 55 Incept: 2008-04-17
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Typo: four questions above not three.
2009-05-27 09:09:16
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Perfectstorm Posts: 188 Incept: 2008-02-25
florida
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China sees our foolishness and is enabling it for now. Their lending weakens us and if we know it so do they. Stiffing a nation of that size that has endured for so long is not a bright idea. Obama will have a problem telling them he's cramming them to give the money to unfunded pensions and severances. Political leverage over China is a fool's game at this point. They do not need us to survive (don't confuse survival with prosperity). Are we in such a horrible position that we need them?
2009-05-27 09:14:47
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Trappped Posts: 73 Incept: 2009-02-13 Banned
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I have just ONE question for Karl (or anyone else), when is the stock market gonna start priccing in reality instead of shooting up 3% in one hour based on a rearview mirror opinion poll (CONsumer CONfidenece) that is majorly based on the stock market (anyway) ?
2009-05-27 09:16:39
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Koaj Posts: 957 Incept: 2009-02-03
NJ
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And if so, what does that do to the corporate bond market? ------------------- solnow - a hedge fund mgr said last week that very few of his colleagues are willing to buy union shop debt b/c if the company goes under they know they will get screwed. the cost of doing business for airlines, IBM, Alcoa, steel companies, utilites etc will rise b/c it will cost them much more to borrow money to continue day to day ops or expand unintended consequences from Chairman Maobama. hugo chavez would be very proud of Barry's work the last month or so
2009-05-27 09:17:32
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Yaldor Posts: 1430 Incept: 2008-05-17
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Karl, Do you think that we will have 25% decline ? What would this do to stocks of othner car makers such as Ford ? ---------- For every crash the probability of someone showing that he predicted it is near 1 . For every prediction of an imminent crash the probability of it being correct is almost zero
2009-05-27 09:18:27
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Joe Posts: 716 Incept: 2008-06-18 Boston, MA
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Trappped - the stock market has, for intents and purposes, decoupled from economic reality altogether. I'm not touching that house-rigged casino with a ten foot pole right now.
2009-05-27 09:20:39
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Xanares Posts: 1288 Incept: 2008-11-10
London
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Perverse irony on an epic level if the curse of Africa should hit the US under the first black president. (short rule-law -> short foreign investors)
2009-05-27 09:21:46
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Arrack979 Posts: 1271 Incept: 2008-07-15
Blue State Hell
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So 1994 levels gives us a target of about 450 on SPX, IF the pendulum stops exactly where it should, which it never does.
---------- Cash IS a position, just like fetal and reverse cowgirl
2009-05-27 09:24:52
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Pika-steph Posts: 39200 Incept: 2007-09-11
^Why I keep^ fighting; so he is not fighting for nothing.
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Detroit radio is reporting that it was a 'no brainer' that the bondholders want to go to BK because they have 'insurance' (CDS) on the bonds and will get paid 100%. No mention of the fact that those that hold GM bonds with CDS are the institutional holders, NOT the individuals or that the individual holders of Chrysler bonds were wiped out by the administration.  Making it sound just great. ---------- Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
2009-05-27 09:26:11
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Trappped Posts: 73 Incept: 2009-02-13 Banned
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Here is some off topic stuff, but really isn't. I was listening to Peter Shiff's latest video update (on his blog) and he was getting onto the subject of why he isn't seen in the media as much as he was, considering he was famous for calling this downturn 2-3 years ago. I laughed out load when he said he was booted off Good Morning America last month when the Obama's got thier new dog, and that was given precidence. Think about it ? Good Morining America would rather show some mutt than cover what is happening in our eCONomy from a proven expert. Then on AOL this morning they have Clay Aikman's apology to the currnet American Idol as a headline. This point has been stressed repeatedly here..........America doesn't care about what's important !! These rants fall mainly on deaf ears and blind eyes ! The eletist can have thier way.
2009-05-27 09:26:25
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1891 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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Bozonian is right: Quote:They really don't give a rats ass about Treasuries. That game is just being used to draw this out as long as possible. If Treasury rates go too high, Ben will just buy them down. It's brute force and until commodity producers raise their prices there are no real world forces acting to stop Ben from creating money supply, as much as he wants, whenever he wants. It is all about stroking the Sheeple. Keep the people thining all is well and the Government can continue to pull the wool over their eyes. Trapped: Quote:I have just ONE question for Karl (or anyone else), when is the stock market gonna start priccing in reality instead of shooting up 3% in one hour based on a rearview mirror opinion poll (CONsumer CONfidenece) that is majorly based on the stock market (anyway) ? This report was not based on confidence. It was based on hope. Everyone is hoping things pick up. One thing I learned when I was trading.....YOU CAN'T HOPE A STOCK UP. BUT the .gov can manipulate them as high as they want them. Stay out of the way of the FED and .GOV. ---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. Why is Franklin Raines a free man? "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009 
2009-05-27 09:28:04
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Lonestarhog Posts: 64 Incept: 2009-03-06 The Republic of Texas!
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Trapped, the President's Group on Financial Markets, Exchange Stabilization Fund, et.al. (a.k.a. Plunge Protection Team) is doing everything to keep this rally from early March intact, as it affords the banks an opportunity to issue new stock offers and for stocks to be unloaded to the retail investors, who always buy momentum. For those who doubt the PPT exists, I would reference a CNBS video of an August 2007 interview with Henry Paulson. He was frantically attempting to ease investors concerns and in a moment of total frustration stated, "...we have re-energized the President's Working Group..." I sent this video to John Crudele at the New York Post. He did a big expose' about Paulson and the PPT, since it was finally admitted. Nothing is reality, not equities, bonds, gold/silver, oil, Forex, U.S. Government reports...Nothing! As Chris Powell of GATA said, "There are no more free markets, only interventions." When it all comes crashing down it will be a sight to behold, unless you are under it. Hog
2009-05-27 09:28:52
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