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| User Info | Gettlefools' Bet Gets Called: ALL IN! in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71426 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/800-Ge....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-02-15 23:36:15
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Emb145 Posts: 8706 Incept: 2007-08-25 
Near saltwater
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We are truly going to witness history this week. The course for this collision was set decades ago and now there is nothing left but the impact. An analogy comes to mind where somewhere in the Arctic circle an iceberg started to show wear and cracks...while at the same time in Liverpool the White Star Line had laid the keel. The history was already written for GM long ago. Now it just has to play out.
2009-02-15 23:44:49
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Musashi Posts: 2946 Incept: 2007-11-06 Behind the Irony Curtain
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Schrödinger Motors
2009-02-15 23:52:30
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17 
saint louis
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might have to get F if GM goes boom - maybe F is less than $1.
---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-02-15 23:53:50
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Burtoby Posts: 521 Incept: 2007-10-28
Arlington,Tx
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We have to "stabilize auto prices". Everyone knows that. Even Mclame. ---------- Tryin' to turn 6 figures into 7.
2009-02-15 23:56:42
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Euphoria96 Posts: 1180 Incept: 2007-09-19
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I would stay away from F. If GM goes BK, gets rid of a lot of their debt, and then comes out a stronger company, they will put pressure on F who still has to deal with their debt load. Eu
2009-02-16 00:17:01
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Alanha Posts: 2087 Incept: 2008-12-30
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That will take a long time, Euphoria. Meanwhile, Ford has a Brazil plant while GM built it's in....Russia. Oops. + + + An important thing to note here is that with Geithner in charge, he can time news to the split-second for his market-playing insider cronies.
2009-02-16 00:28:16
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Flapdoodle Posts: 659 Incept: 2008-01-25
La Serena, Chile
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Quote:Ford has a Brazil plant while GM built it's in....Russia. Actually, GM is in Brazil too. I have a Corsa B made in Brazil - its a great car and comes ready to run regular fuel or ethanol at the flip of a switch. ---------- --Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors. - African Proverb
2009-02-16 07:10:21
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Tesla Posts: 8174 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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And when GM goes BK, Ford can then get the same "deal" from the unions that the GM BK will force. Some of Ford's overhead will go away when the union gets their comeuppance, and they will be a much stronger company.
---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-02-16 08:11:00
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Micronin127 Posts: 607 Incept: 2008-01-21
Swampscott, MA Online
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Everything Obama has touched thus far has felt like a circus. I mean, who's in charge here. The Stimulus Bill beame a runaway and his attempts at bipartisanship, though genuine were undercut by his own party acting like petulent children and cramming the bill full of every pet project they've wanted to pass but couldn;t for the last eight years. Public television, endowment for the arts, funding for abortions and condoms.... that's stilumus!?! And then they stand back and wonder why not a single Republican voted for the bill loaded to the hilt with poison pills. The Republicans used to do the same thing by the way and attach 'drilling for oil in the Arctic national Wildlife Rescue' to every bill and then lo-and-behold, not a single Democrat would support it. This auto bailout restructuring has to go to bankruptcy court so that the government can appear to be in control. They step in with the DIP financing and control the terms sounds about right to me. If they hold hearings and appoint a committee or a czar or whatever, it will be one circus act after another for the next four years. They need to deal with this quickly and get it over with. Bankruptcy laws exist for just this purpose.
2009-02-16 09:05:50
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Ruffcut Posts: 2197 Incept: 2007-07-07 Mushagain Online
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I would not make a long bet, on Fords. When GM and chrysler go poof, they will unload a huge amount of pension obligations. This will give them a competitive advantage over fords, 9 billion annual legacy costs. I think fords will not like being the only bag holder. I don't believe the UAW would budge an inch for the retirees, collecting pensions. Maybe health benefits would be attacked, but the payouts( the larger sum), would be the line in the sand. Custers', last stand. Just remember the Alamo. Ford's future, may be representative of their ownership in the world's worst sports team, the Detroit Lions. ---------- Support locally, and **** off globally!
2009-02-16 09:15:37
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Widgeon Posts: 6525 Incept: 2007-08-30
OK Online
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F will eventually join the party. They've done a good job of avoiding the klieg lights by keeping away from the public spectacle.
2009-02-16 09:20:10
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Mo Posts: 5501 Incept: 2007-06-26
Florida
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Don't rule out Emanuel's missive: 'Never allow a crisis go to waste'. The feds WANT all the pension and 401K money. This is a way to get the retired autoworkers to demand that the government 'do something' when one of the big 3 goes into bankruptcy. ---------- "The World has been cancelled. It doesn't even look like the world. There is one island that is maintained and is said to be owned by the Sheikh and the rest looks like a pile of muck."
2009-02-16 09:25:58
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Gmak Posts: 10176 Incept: 2007-07-27
Re-inventing the future at the speed of time.
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Don't cry for me Argentinaaaaaaaaaaaa...... 
2009-02-16 09:39:13
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Micronin127 Posts: 607 Incept: 2008-01-21
Swampscott, MA Online
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It's also one thing to read a balance sheet and know logically that GM needs bankruptcy, but there are also hidden toxic assets and Level 3 accounting tricks going on at the Big Three. They have been financing their own crap products for years and doing 125% financing and 'fog-a-mirror' loans and leases to get the product out the door. Now these cars coming off lease are very similar to REOs and bank owned homes. They are being 'marked-to-model' by the Big Three. How many billions of off balance sheet and Level 3 crap do you think is stuffed inside GMAC Finance? I would assume that is worse than the pension fund and the retiree health benefit problem combined.
2009-02-16 11:17:36
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Outsider1 Posts: 243 Incept: 2008-10-13
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What impact will this have on the Dow / S&P ?
2009-02-16 11:34:18
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Quads4444 Posts: 1282 Incept: 2007-11-09
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I don't have any confidence that Obama will do the right thing.
2009-02-16 12:53:51
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Eaglewwit Posts: 1889 Incept: 2007-11-30 SoCal
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You said it right in your ticker Gen, "millions of jobs lost". There is no way they go for a simple bankruptcy. After all the government bull**** over the past months I expect nothing but more of it. Expect more handouts.
---------- "Not even I imagined we would see trillions of dollars being created and given to the culprits as a means of allegedly "saving" the system. This is not mere Keynesianism; it is Keynesianism on steroids and crystal meth."
2009-02-16 12:58:52
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Micronin127 Posts: 607 Incept: 2008-01-21
Swampscott, MA Online
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But what are we saving them for? To keep them employed building cars? Would you do the same for homebuilders in Florida? Or would you run around screaming "For God's sake stop building!!!". There are too many used cars coming off lease. There are too many dealerships stuffed tot he gills with cars they can't sell. And the industry is still going to produce 2 million too many new cars for collapsing demand. I understand the desire to 'save jobs', but..... "For God's sake, stop building 10 million new cars every year!!!"
2009-02-16 13:05:57
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Eaglewwit Posts: 1889 Incept: 2007-11-30 SoCal
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Never underestimate the stupidity of the government.
---------- "Not even I imagined we would see trillions of dollars being created and given to the culprits as a means of allegedly "saving" the system. This is not mere Keynesianism; it is Keynesianism on steroids and crystal meth."
2009-02-16 13:29:04
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Clrscm Posts: 30 Incept: 2009-02-08
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Did anyone see Toyota's numbers? http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2.... Feb. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., the world’s biggest carmaker, will slash domestic production 54 percent in the current quarter as demand plunges in the U.S. and Japan. The company’s output, excluding its Daihatsu Motor Co. and Hino Motors Ltd. units, will drop to about 519,000 vehicles in the three months ending in March, compared with 1.13 million units a year ago, according to figures derived from Toyota’s latest full-year forecast. Toyota spokesman Paul Nolasco declined to confirm the figures. CLRSCM here - they already mothballed their new US Prius plant. The whole industry is going to shrink by at least 40%. I don't think there is a manufacturer (globally) that can support their fixed costs (bonds included) with volume that low. This is just like the airlines - the first one to declare bankruptcy brings down the rest because they have a massive cost advantage. Gettlefinger must be thinking that at least the Gov will use lubricant. The only place I would go long is with a strong aftermarket parts supplier.
2009-02-16 14:05:44
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Alanha Posts: 2087 Incept: 2008-12-30
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Quote:Gettlefinger must be thinking that at least the Gov will use lubricant.He's going to need it. 
2009-02-16 14:27:38
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Tesla Posts: 8174 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2009-02-16 14:42:11
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Financeguy Posts: 4945 Incept: 2007-08-10
Charlotte Online
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I think one of the sad confirmations to me of this announcement is it would appear that Volcker has indeed been marginalized. He was originally discussed as playing a big part in this and possibly the car czar. It is pretty clear to me that Summers and his puppet Geithner are calling the shots....It is a tragedy for the banking system and the country...... ---------- "Granted, if you are not into Barbara Streisand and creme brulee, South Beach could be a tad lonely." Eleua
2009-02-16 16:20:11
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Joe Posts: 716 Incept: 2008-06-18 Boston, MA
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Marshmellows at the ready:
2009-02-16 18:31:36
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