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| User Info | Fixing Health Care: A Real Solution in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1310-F....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-07 12:37:50
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Cobra2411 Posts: 6153 Incept: 2007-06-26 
Dark Side of the Moon
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---------- Suppose you were a criminal, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself...
2009-08-07 12:46:02
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Chris92346 Posts: 647 Incept: 2009-03-25
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I love your idea about forcing the hospital to eat it when they made you sick. However how do you prove this? I guess if you are a long term hospital patient I guess it would be easy, but if you where a short timer the hospital will say you had it when you came in.
2009-08-07 12:49:46
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Cawoodruff Posts: 55 Incept: 2008-04-17
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what about the law suits /lawyers?
2009-08-07 12:51:31
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Quote:I love your idea about forcing the hospital to eat it when they made you sick. However how do you prove this? I guess if you are a long term hospital patient I guess it would be easy, but if you where a short timer the hospital will say you had it when you came in. MRSA is simple - you got it in the hospital. Getting administered the wrong medication (dose or drug) is easy. Those are the simple ones. As for the "lawsuit screaming", STOP IT RIGHT NOW. That is simply NOT the reason prices are as high as they are. Solve 80% of the problem; the other 20% we can deal with once the 80% is taken care of. This will NOT turn into a "lawsuit/lawyer" thread - if that's your schtick, stay off this thread because you will get exactly ONE post to expose that viewpoint and then will never post in a TICKER thread again. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-07 12:54:24
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Asimov Posts: 26716 Incept: 2007-08-26
east tennessee
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I think this should be "and" instead of "at"?Quote:the IRS will be happy to take payments (at interest.) BTW, do you actually want these corrections? I see them all the time, but are they an aggravation or help? [Edit: I love the ideas. It's the first really logical and simple proposal I've seen.] [Edit2: I just realized, it makes sense like it is too. Sorry.] ---------- It's justifiably immoral to try to deal in a moral fashion with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente. Last modified:
2009-08-07 13:04:19 by asimov
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Icanhasbailout Posts: 2170 Incept: 2009-03-10
Imaginationland
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I'm not sure you are aware just how much ambulance-chasing lawyering affects all aspects of the medical industry. The damage they do is not limited to the unearned fees they collect; it has a chain reaction that permeates every aspect of any medical organization right down to the interaction with the customer. The practice of medicine these days is very much the art of not getting sued.
---------- I can has TARP? http://icanhastarp.com
2009-08-07 12:56:50
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Shrpblnd Posts: 1169 Incept: 2007-08-06
Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:If Medicare's "price schedule" is inadequate the solution is for providers to refuse to provide the service at that price, not cost-shift the care of older Americans onto younger. This is a more than $200 billion dollar a year rip-off of working-age Americans and it must end. Agreed, but politically this is going to be all but impossible. Seniors vote with remarkable solidarity, and are not about to give up this subsidy easily.
2009-08-07 12:58:19
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Blackswan Posts: 3602 Incept: 2007-11-06
Ponzi Roller Coaster Online
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Free market what a novel concept. Employment and healthcare benefits is such a whacked idea and it never made sense to me. I know the history why it is what it is today. We could save money with government healthcare. Just follow the post office cost cutting ideas and cut off service on Saturday and Sunday. Just don't get sick or hurt on the weekends. ----------
2009-08-07 13:02:47
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Shrp, the path Obama is on will result in them giving it up because everyone will wind up on Medicare, at which point the ability to cost-shift disappears. The only reason it doesn't happen NOW is the unavailability - I'd take it TOMORROW if I was able, but my age prevents it. Once you FORCE everyone to buy and then provide a public option for those who can't afford it, you tear down that wall. The "Medicare shift" is gone one way or the other. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-07 13:09:01
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Brunothepug Posts: 3 Incept: 2009-07-24 Scottsdale, AZ
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Is there are data out there that shows the difference in the "market" rate of these services and what the hospital bills or is allowed to bill to Medicare? Actually it might be more important to know what the difference is between what the government pays for Medicare billings and what the hospital expects private insurance pays. I think this disparity is important and hasn't been investigated enough.
2009-08-07 13:09:50
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Often a double or more Bruno.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-07 13:10:48
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Kab Posts: 629 Incept: 2009-04-02 Colorado
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Bueno.
2009-08-07 13:22:48
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Weezie Posts: 3601 Incept: 2008-05-19
Obama's personal message to the American people...
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Bruno, I can give you a first hand experience. My daughter's speech therapy's "rack rate" (cost to uninsured or out-of-network) is $137 per session. Medicade would pay $99 if we were on it. Our insurance contract rate is $65. Since the insurance reimbursement was so low, our provider went out of network and now we have to pay $137. Interesting that the $99 Medicade price point is halfway between the rack rate and insurance reimbursement, isn't it? ---------- ---------------------------- Do not write below this line.
2009-08-07 13:26:09
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Thinkb4urite Posts: 14 Incept: 2009-04-30
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What if the Cap & Tax, Stimilus BS bill, and now the Health Care is cover for what's really going on with the Federal Reserve (NY), Investment Banks, and the elite insiders ? The media is not following it for the most part (thank heaven for the internet). The general public doesn't understand the behind-the-scene under-handed deals and fine print in the bills being passsed. Matt Taibbi is doing his part, as is Karl Denninger, Mish Shedlock et al... but will it be enough ?
2009-08-07 13:26:43
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Pietertvl Posts: 1644 Incept: 2007-12-05 NFA Online
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"If you sell "insurance" to anyone in a given state, you must accept all persons in that state on the same terms and at the same price." Folks in their 20s pay the same for insurance as folks in their 70s? Or are there rate schedules that vary by age, etc? Frankly, I think rates should be more akin to auto insurance schedules, with discounts for non-smokers, healthy bodyweight-to-mass ratios and other objective indicators of health vs. negligence. And surcharges where appropriate. So construct a price for a 45yo non-smoking .... etc. then have adjustments to this basic rate applying discounts and surcharges. Live in a flood plain: pay more. ---------- The economy is so bad now that whenever the bank returns your check marked "Insufficient Funds," you have to call and ask them if they meant you or them. Last modified:
2009-08-07 13:31:07 by pietertvl
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Phaedrus Posts: 7 Incept: 2009-08-06 Des Moines, WA
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Excellent analysis and suggested reforms. I suggest that something also needs to be done about the atrocious absolute cost of doctors, hospitals and prescrition drugs. The "model" is broken.
2009-08-07 13:29:18
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Hihoherewego Posts: 595 Incept: 2009-02-25
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Those are rock-solid common sense suggestions. ............... Liberty isn't free.
2009-08-07 13:31:56
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Chris92346 Posts: 647 Incept: 2009-03-25
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I also am a big proponent of catastrophic insurance. I could go to the doctor once a month every month and pay out of pocket and spend less money than if I bought insurance. The only time I ever would need or want insurance is if I had to go to the hospital. Currently this option does not exist for me.
2009-08-07 13:34:18
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Kab Posts: 629 Incept: 2009-04-02 Colorado
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It does, but it's hard to find. Plus if you're working some place where health "insurance" is part of your compensation you probably don't get that compensation unless you sign up.
2009-08-07 13:37:06
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Tesla Posts: 8182 Incept: 2008-04-03 
Delaware
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I'd also add in these 2 simple items: 1. get rid of insurance mandates in a policy for example, I neither need nor want 30 days of mental health care, yet I'm forced to buy it. I'm also forced to subsidize drug coverage for Viagra when there is no similar coverage for birth control products. Free the market for what's included in a policy. 2. allow buying policies across state lines if a policy is good enough to be sold in Delaware, why can't I buy it if I live in PA ? ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata Last modified:
2009-08-07 13:44:40 by tesla
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Texpat Posts: 16 Incept: 2009-07-20
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Great set of suggestions, especially the '3rd party insurance' / catastrophic insurance which it should be a duty to own. Beyond that, mandating a single published price list, and publishing outcomes is great too. However, will it be possible to get around the bugbear of 'deregulated markets' in which providers conspire together to raise prices? A hospital is a large capex, and is expensive to staff and run, and obviously if a market can be controlled, and milked, then large interests will try to do so. There would need to be a fairly powerful regulator to prevent this, and obviously this regulator would be a giant prize to be captured by the industry...
2009-08-07 13:43:31
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Chris92346 Posts: 647 Incept: 2009-03-25
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Also a very simple fix for the uninsured. Why couldn't somebody that couldn't afford traditional health insurance buy into, on a sliding scale based on income, medicare? Medicare would get an influx of cash, probably not much more of an outlay because the government would be paying for these people anyways, and everybody that wants health care would have access to it? Also it really ****es me off how the congress has to take on sweeping reforms that will change everything. They want to throw the baby out with the bath water. If you really wanted the best for everybody you would do it incrementally. You would start with a few very bi-partisan commonsense reforms. Stuff that any reasonable person could agree on. You would give these changes a chance to work and then work and then evaluate what else needs to be done. I guess we are not allowed to have any reform unless we take the big ****ing 1" long horse pill that congress and the pres want us to swallow.
2009-08-07 13:46:29
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Txin1880 Posts: 1270 Incept: 2009-02-25
Texas
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This ticker needs to go viral . . . I would love to have cheaper insurance for only the extreme situations, and pay cash for everything else (at fair prices!) I'm sure some of you have had the same experience as me, trying to get an exact cash price on a specific procedure so you can shop around is damn near impossible . . . Thanks Karl, for the effort. ---------- Don't just starve the beast, slit it's throat. "Blow up your TV, throw away your paper. ~ John Prine
2009-08-07 13:47:49
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Quote:Great set of suggestions, especially the '3rd party insurance' / catastrophic insurance which it should be a duty to own. No, its not a duty to own it. What if you have the cash to self-insure? The purpose of government is to prevent you from ****ing OTHER PEOPLE. So if you make that choice, and then get sick, the bill goes to the government who WILL collect it. In the meantime the provider is made whole immediately. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-07 13:49:02
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