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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1692-I....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-12-03 11:42:36
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Dashingdwl Posts: 4564 Incept: 2007-06-26 
los angeles
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Heard on the radio last night that 11,000 people showed up/applied for 400 SERVICE jobs at the W Hotel in Hollywood. Not management, but hotel service staff positions.
---------- Think Green Tip.
2009-12-03 11:44:10
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17 
saint louis
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Just was thinking something this morning. Service jobs have become way too much of our economy and its time that we get back to producing things. I had a novel idea - I'm sure something is wrong with it but I'll throw it out there. Manufacturing companies pay no corporate income taxes. Lets require them to disburse say 75% of income to shareholders to qualify for this. At least that way we are taxing the 3/4 of the profits once. But this might bring some jobs back. ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-12-03 11:49:26
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Fair Tax. ZERO taxes on businesses. Tax final demand. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-12-03 12:03:17
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2banana Posts: 168 Incept: 2008-02-25
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Quote:
Sadly, no politician looks this far ahead. At most, the farthest they look is when their next re-election time. Their thinking “I am not sacrificing for some future politician 20 years from now who may not even be from my party…”
2009-12-03 12:14:34
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Ludlow Posts: 52 Incept: 2008-08-11
Indiana
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I am a supporter of the Fair Tax as well, but I've been wondering what kind of negative affect the reduced consumption would have on revenues for it. I supposed a similar argument could be made for our income tax system as unemployment is sprialing out of control and tax revenues are down.
2009-12-03 12:19:04
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Markytom Posts: 217 Incept: 2009-02-19
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Economists generally support extending unemployment insurance. The bill would prolong benefits for at least 14 weeks for people out of work. The jobless in more than two dozen states where unemployment rates exceed 8.5 percent would receive to 20 additional weeks of benefits. Because unemployed people tend to be strapped for cash, they often spend most if not all of the money they receive as benefits. This in turn tends to give a bigger boost to the wider economy than do many other forms of government spending. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con.... Karl, what is your opinion of the Government continually extending unemployment benefits? Last modified:
2009-12-03 12:32:11 by markytom
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Lud - I have wondered that too. But with the additional money in our pockets we would not be spending but rather investing. That investment might provide development of new products and restore us to a place of leadership in the world of business. Why does it always have to be us consuming, maybe we might bring jobs back to the US and export the consumption process to the rest of the world. This is why the fair tax or national sales tax is far superior to a value added tax. ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-12-03 12:31:35
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Marky, such is inherently destructive as it reduces the incentive to find work and in addition simply adds to the debt ponzi bubble.
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-12-03 12:33:23
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Gen - ya make too damn much sense. Just a for instance my B-I-L just went back to work. Took a job out of his field to go back. CAUSE HIS BENEFITS RAN OUT. ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2009-12-03 12:35:28
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Blackswan Posts: 3602 Incept: 2007-11-06
Ponzi Roller Coaster Online
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I will take a guess that construction was up due to the stimulus - a few highway and road projects.. I could be wrong.
----------
2009-12-03 12:46:38
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Blackswan Posts: 3602 Incept: 2007-11-06
Ponzi Roller Coaster Online
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Sorry if discussed mentioned somewhere else.. speaking of unemployment bennies.. Will Congress extend COBRA subsidy for unemployed workers? By Julia Bauer | The Grand Rapids Press December 03, 2009, 9:28AM For nine months, a hefty subsidy has made health insurance more affordable for millions of jobless people and their kids. Now, that option is screeching to a halt, unless Congress opts to extend the rare subsidy program and underwrite COBRA coverage for a few more months. The rub? Unemployment benefits barely match the health-insurance load created by layoffs. Meanwhile, an estimated 7 million jobless workers and dependents soon must decide whether to keep COBRA, find some other coverage or go without, he said. “Undoubtedly, the overwhelming majority will become uninsured,” he said. “You simply can’t pay 83 percent of income.” complete article below... http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michi.... ----------
2009-12-03 12:51:24
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Timbo Posts: 1132 Incept: 2008-10-10
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Black wrote..I will take a guess that construction was up due to the stimulus - a few highway and road projects.. I could be wrong.Plenty of that here. Replacing stop lights, widening streets so they're more pedestrian-friendly, rotating dirt before the holes go bad, etc. TMD wrote..Just a for instance my B-I-L just went back to work. Took a job out of his field to go back. CAUSE HIS BENEFITS RAN OUT.My neighbor's picking up a $500 unemployment check, having quit both literal McJobs he bothered to get inside of a month. Using the money to advertise a prepared foods delivery "cash business," as it were -- first shot turned $10 in groceries into $100+. I think the word for my feeling is awe. ---------- http://mises.org/story/770 http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html If you don't fly the plane and find a place to land, then God will find a place to park you.
2009-12-03 14:07:41
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Txdomer Posts: 968 Incept: 2007-11-07
Ding-dong, the Fed is dead!
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Karl, To make the debt burden more manageable and constructive, you suggest: 1) Pull in outstanding credit to $40 trillion - cutting back financial instruments by half (total of $8 trillion) and Consumer Credit by 20% (about $3 trillion) 2) Use some of that (but not all, and definitely not more than all you took back!) to help Main Street. Two questions: 1) By "Main Street", do you mean small business? 2) How can we make 1 and 2 happen? As you point out, the Fed can control total aggregate credit, but is there really any way to control who gets that credit? ---------- "Economics is not practiced as a science. Rather, it is a pretentious way to covertly promote political prejudices." - Fred Harrison http://renegadeeconomist.com
2009-12-03 14:16:30
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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1. Yes. 2. There are a dozen ways to do that, depending on what specific area of Main Street you wish to target, if any. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-12-03 14:34:10
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Txdomer Posts: 968 Incept: 2007-11-07
Ding-dong, the Fed is dead!
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Okay, please enlighten me with a couple, especially if you don't wish to target any specific areas. I can't imagine anything other than expanidng SBA guaranteed loans, but I don't think that is what you had in mind. Thanks. ---------- "Economics is not practiced as a science. Rather, it is a pretentious way to covertly promote political prejudices." - Fred Harrison http://renegadeeconomist.com Last modified:
2009-12-03 14:43:15 by txdomer
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Etz3l Posts: 9103 Incept: 2007-06-26
Online
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Quote:The proper policy response is to force the contraction of "Financial Instruments" and "Household" credit. And put an end to the obscene profits of the criminal banksters who own the Fed and every bribed politician? The giant vampire squid might not be pleased.
---------- Treating the symptoms of financial corruption isn’t the same as removing the causes. Last modified:
2009-12-03 14:54:25 by etz3l
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Quote:Okay, please enlighten me with a couple, especially if you don't wish to target any specific areas. I can't imagine anything other than expanidng SBA guaranteed loans, but I don't think that is what you had in mind. 1. Charter a new federal bank with some of the remaining TARP money (or a handful of them) which would have ZERO current loans, demand they have FedCredit access, and mandate in their charter that they lend to firms with annual sales under $100 million. 2. Use the existing 13.3 authority to extend FedCredit loans DIRECTLY to small and mid-sized businesses. (that one I don't particularly like, but it would work.) I can think of a dozen more without trying very hard. The key is that you control the amount of available credit and at the same time you withdraw the "zero interest" financing from Wall Street, forcing them to pay market rates for their money or operate on actual free cash flow. The problem is that we have too much credit. But in addition, we have a monstrous misallocation of credit due to the government and Fed bailing out everyone - so long as they're a big banking concern. This is exactly backward - you want credit to go into productive purposes (e.g. buying a CNC machine) not buying commodity futures or gambling in the financial markets generally. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me Last modified:
2009-12-03 14:46:54 by genesis
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Txdomer Posts: 968 Incept: 2007-11-07
Ding-dong, the Fed is dead!
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Interesting. If someone would lock Turbo Timmy and Uncle Ben(dover) in a closet, Obama might go for it. You definitely think outside the box. ---------- "Economics is not practiced as a science. Rather, it is a pretentious way to covertly promote political prejudices." - Fred Harrison http://renegadeeconomist.com
2009-12-03 14:55:11
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Bagbalm Posts: 979 Incept: 2009-03-19
Just North of Detroit
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I agree in the long run letting unemployment run out should force workers to seek a job - any job - whereas while on unemployment many will not accept a job for less that they were making before - or damn close to it... In reality I suspect that many will refuse to adjust their life style to their new reality. If unemployment is not continued for the vast majority of people I see massive social failure with families pulled apart and spouses separating or divorcing. Children sent to live with relatives and adults becoming modern hobos. I see all sorts of criminal behaviors escalating and people hitting the road with what they can carry in their car or living in their car. The sort of crimes of opportunity such people commit on the road are hard to predict or avoid. We will have to spent more time and cash securing against property crimes and random robbery. People will go to warmer climates (New neighbors Gen!) and places they perceive the social services such as soup kitchens being better. Those places will crack down on people parking overnight and begging.
2009-12-03 14:55:13
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Licorice Posts: 920 Incept: 2009-01-06
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I'm surprised the market hasn't reacted more negatively to this bit of news. I would have expected the S&P to at least go back to the 1080s on this. ---------- Print the money and give it to the people.
2009-12-03 15:06:26
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Kab Posts: 629 Incept: 2009-04-02 Colorado
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Quote:I will take a guess that construction was up due to the stimulus - a few highway and road projects.. I could be wrong. Seen more than a few of those around. Haven't actually seen meaningful work actually get done though. Funny how that works.
2009-12-03 17:45:29
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Kab Posts: 629 Incept: 2009-04-02 Colorado
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Quote:We will have to spent more time and cash securing against property crimes and random robbery. Or we could just arm ourselves, which anyone with two brain cells to rub together does anyway. Would have the added benefit of waking up the moronic masses to that reality though and maybe put pressure on the government to stop infringing on the second amendment. Wait, who am I kidding, this is America, they'll just vote away their own rights and disarm themselves, then wonder why there's even more crime not less.
2009-12-03 17:48:59
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Frat Posts: 150 Incept: 2009-07-15 NKY
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KD, I like the idea of the Fair Tax (after finally going to the site and reading about it), but what are the chances that it can actually be implemented? Is it going to take a fall of the current government to make it happen? Will it even have a chance of happening then, anyway? I don't know, I'm just a frustrated middle class (for now!) American who'd rather see a complete reset than to continue with this extend and pretend bull****. Wait, since I'm unemployed, should I get some basic materials and begin constructing a guillotine? Hmm, that has merit. Make it easy to disassemble and reassemble so it can be taken to all political functions and protests. Now THAT has merit.
2009-12-03 21:59:35
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Chainlink Posts: 521 Incept: 2008-10-26
Florida and Michigan
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'Services' decline will plunge unemployment by whole points at a time. The 'elective' service industries are gonna be a goner. I sure don't see how construction increased, except projects on hold for months getting go aheads. I know of more permanently unemployed here, moving out of state. A local, big marine G.C. is going through its 2nd layoffs, with guys there over a decade being subject to layoff. What used to be intellectual curiosity for me 3 or 4 years ago, is now a living horror story. A new, Dick's Sporting Goods was empty, with literally sales people exceeding customers in the store. I bought a few things, but had a really depressed, foreboding feeling being there, as if it was the death throes of everything we became used to the last 20 years. When I was in my teens I used to photograph flowers and trees since I was brainwashed into thinking they'd be gone in 20 years (the virulent Gaia movement and reading too much science fiction) and I'd have them as a personal record. Everywhere I go now, I feel like I'm experiencing the last leg...looking at store shelves stocked with food...remember and enjoy it now...no more. Last modified:
2009-12-04 08:21:25 by chainlink
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