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| User Info | Desperate Men, Desperate Measures in forum [Ticker] | ||||
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Genesis Posts: 71430 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.denninger.net/2008/....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-05-11 21:27:42
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Dirtysouth Posts: 2766 Incept: 2007-09-20 
Love Truth Honour ॐ Banned
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Quote:Or how about John DeLorean, who set up an "upstart" car factory and got into trouble? His version of "desperation" turned to putting up $1.8 million to bring 100 kilos of cocaine into the United States, a deal that promised (had he not been caught!) $24 million in profits - and the salvation of his company. He, of course, got caught, although he was later acquitted. Welcome to the Real America. I have been waiting for a ticker with this type of tone for a long while now... Funny how Fla folks seem to be ahead of the game =) Never give up KD 
---------- Forest First...Trees Second Feb 9 ~ Mar 11 ~ Apr 09 ~ May 09 ~ Jun 07 ~ Jul 07 ~ Jul 22 ~ Aug 06 ~ Sep 04 ~ Oct 04 ~ Nov 02 ~ Dec 02 ~ Dec 31 Last modified:
2008-05-11 21:43:25 by dirtysouth
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2banana Posts: 168 Incept: 2008-02-25
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So - How to make money on this? Are interest rates going to spike when no one wants to buy US Treasuries? Or when people finally realize inflation is more like 7%? Keep all money in cash in a short term (7-30 days) money market funds? Invest in funds that bet that interest rates will go up in the future (RTPIX, RRPIX, RYJUX, DXKSX, etc.)?
2008-05-11 22:03:13
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Genesis Posts: 71430 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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How to make money on this eh? You obviously didn't read that Ticker very well, did you? ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me Last modified:
2008-05-11 22:19:13 by genesis
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Brett Posts: 2374 Incept: 2008-01-23 
Pittsburgh Online
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"Paulson often stutters when on TV at a rate that would make a woodpecker bow in awe." I guess the natural "change detection" question would be: Did Paulson stut-stut-stuter at the begining of his tenure? Or is it a recent development? Has anyone done a comparative analysis of his rate of stuttering in the past compared to now? If he was well spoken 2-3 years ago and has just recently picked up the habit then by-jiminy that's Deception and we can use that as a factor in our shorting with abandon. If he's always been a stutter-er then it's a non-factor. Basically just a question for those of you who have the institutional memory to know the answer to that question. ---------- "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken
2008-05-11 22:22:00
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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I've made great returns in the last year - up about 175% Could have done better but I have played things rather safe. Never exposing more than 25% of my portfolio to risk and only playing plays that I was real sure of up to that point. DSL and FED I was sure enough of to really stick my neck out on shorting. If it wasn't for the HRB **** I'd be killing it. But right now I'm wondering what to do financially to protect my profits. Gen any advice about something to do with say 80% of my portfolio to protect it. I'll still want to play some things on FNM and FRE to have some fun but I don't know about keeping cash in $$$. Bonds, preferred stocks, foreign stocks, etc? Any ideas? ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2008-05-11 22:30:25
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Justload Posts: 172 Incept: 2007-08-16
South
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BRAVO K.D.
2008-05-11 22:33:26
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Genesis Posts: 71430 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Right now this is about much more than protecting profits. Consider what happens if we get a "no mas!" out of the bond market and the response of consumers is that the 80% of the good mortgage borrowers decide to say "**** you" and stop paying in protest, arguing that they have effectively had their homes' value already destroyed as real interest rates skyrocket. Bang - there goes the entire system and since the government has backstopped it, there goes the government. This is something that folks had better get their arms around and fast, because we are now arguing about whether the desperation of private citizens and corporations is about to be shifted to the desperation of the government. History has a number of lessons on this point, and none of them have turned out well. Many have turned out in ways that nobody - bear or bull - wants to see happen. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-05-11 22:36:35
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Fidgit Posts: 14065 Incept: 2008-02-18
AllyBammy
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Quote:"We will not tolerate one dime of public money being spent to 'bail out' the housing crisis, irrespective of who gets the bailout or why. This is a private market matter and, other than prosecuting wrongdoers, of which they are many, the government must stand back and stand tall as the safe and secure place where money can be invested." Cut n pasted to my senators (and will be repeated verbally over the phone tomorrow); my congressman, Spencer Bachus, is already on board (voted against the bailout plan) ---------- I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it.
2008-05-11 22:40:36
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Dasweise Posts: 459 Incept: 2007-08-27
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The Giants, that we can't see, are very active. But they do leave footprints. You forgot the privitizing of the federal prisions and then the mandatory sentencing laws. That is costing us every day. WE even keep the non US felons on the taxpayer dime. You point out a pattern of dis-trust to the core of this nation. You mention to be leary of the ONE that "HAS the FIX" The only people in this country who have the discipline to fix the problem are few selected military and business leaders. I am sure you have seen "Charlie Wilson's War". Think about the zen master's reply each time the boy gets his way. We'll See.............. ---------- Are you msrching on Washington DC on Thursday, April 15, 2010?
2008-05-11 22:45:32
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Genesis Posts: 71430 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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I'm not pointing out the need to be "leary" - I am pointing out that we either stop it now or the odds are exceedingly high that we will repeat history, and if you want to know what the odds say the outcome of that will be, I've given you a few of the hundreds of examples. Your challenge is to find me an example that did not turn out badly. Note that in the Depression the government did ring-fence itself for the most part, and thus did not find itself being the one in desperate straits. Good luck. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me Last modified:
2008-05-11 22:52:00 by genesis
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Bozonian Posts: 14033 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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My response? Buy land where it is least wanted, take care of myself and my own while the rest of the world goes to hell. If you were German, French, Italian, Russian, Polish etc during WW2, where would you want to be? In the cities? or in the country? ---------- I'm so depressed about outsourcing I called the suicide hotline and got a call center in Pakistan. They got all excited and asked me if I could drive a truck. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
2008-05-11 22:52:21
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Genesis Posts: 71430 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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If you were Jewish in Germany, did it matter? Be careful with the "stick head in sand" approach. Again, history says that has a very high probability of turning out poorly. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-05-11 22:53:43
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Fidgit Posts: 14065 Incept: 2008-02-18
AllyBammy
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Boz, I plan eventually to make my escape to Vancouver Island, or somewhere around the Pacific NW. In the meantime, tho, I'm doing everything I can to stem the tide. Because fighting what's wrong is important in itself, for each individual. Planning for the future, and fighting for what's right: the two don't obviate each other. ---------- I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it.
2008-05-11 22:56:58
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Brett Posts: 2374 Incept: 2008-01-23
Pittsburgh Online
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Ummm on a boat to the US?
---------- "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken
2008-05-11 22:57:24
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Brett Posts: 2374 Incept: 2008-01-23
Pittsburgh Online
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My pervious was a response to the where would you want to be at the outset of WWII. My answer is actually spookily similar to Fidgit's. We'll see how it all pans out though.
---------- "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken
2008-05-11 22:59:16
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Gt80 Posts: 218 Incept: 2008-01-20
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Karl - great recap of where we are and where we're probably heading. In the past, you have consistently dismissed or discouraged the mad max scenario. Yet in this post, you seem to suggest that the wheels may indeed fall off our society. Any particular reason for this apparent shift in your assessment of the damages?
2008-05-11 23:12:29
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Genesis Posts: 71430 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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I am not describing Mad Max. Its "you're ****ed"; Mad Max is anarchy (social/political collapse) which is an entirely different animal. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-05-11 23:14:09
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Gen, I'm trying but I haven't got one response from my current or past representative. I don't think there is really anything that can be done at this point. I personally don't think we can do anything to stop what has been set in motion. The .gov debt is out of control and the personal and business debts are too. Does anyone really think the production of this country can pay off its debt. I would at least like to go down swinging so I do support most of Gen's actions. Many of his tickers are faxed to Akin and Shimkus. And I have asked for a sitdown with Akin. No ****in reply. So I'm also looking for what I can do to protect myself.
---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2008-05-11 23:14:24
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Bozonian Posts: 14033 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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I should have prefaced it with, "all things being equal". The cities are the first target for "harvesting" resources because the density of money, goods and people is highest there. They are also the first to descend into chaos due to the population living without reserves due to the availability of grocery stores and other services while times are good. Look at New Orleans for an example of how well you'll fare if something goes terribly wrong in a city. Hello? McFly?? No one is going to come to your rescue necessarily. You better be prepared to make due on your own for at least a month. Ideally, I'd have wanted land with access to ocean, there you have unlimited ability to go anywhere if you have a boat. ---------- I'm so depressed about outsourcing I called the suicide hotline and got a call center in Pakistan. They got all excited and asked me if I could drive a truck. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
2008-05-11 23:17:08
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Eternalblue Posts: 4230 Incept: 2007-08-09
sokali Online
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hmmm, i better stock up more ammo ---------- my miniblog; http://economicpsychosis.blogspot.com/
2008-05-11 23:24:18
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Maple Posts: 4461 Incept: 2007-09-03
Southern California
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I visited John DeLorean's home in the early 80s. Photographs of himself just everywhere in every room. Bonfire of the vanities, indeed.
2008-05-11 23:25:10
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Gt80 Posts: 218 Incept: 2008-01-20
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Karl - okay, but can you provide more detail on what "your ****ed" means? Candidly, I don't see how we avoid social/political collapse, so if "your ****ed" is something short of that, then I'd like to know what it means. Thanks.
2008-05-11 23:26:37
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Maple Posts: 4461 Incept: 2007-09-03
Southern California
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Quote:I plan eventually to make my escape to Vancouver Island, or somewhere around the Pacific NW Hundreds of people here have told me they plan to move to South Vancouver Island in the next five years.
2008-05-11 23:29:53
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Fidgit Posts: 14065 Incept: 2008-02-18
AllyBammy
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Quote:Hundreds of people here have told me they plan to move to South Vancouver Island in the next five years. Dang! Do I have a hive mind, or what??!? *grabbing map of British Columbia to figure out next move* ---------- I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it.
2008-05-11 23:31:49
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