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| User Info | Chrysler: Bumbled, Fumbled or Smart? in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1003-C....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-01 08:51:18
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Bear Posts: 6649 Incept: 2007-07-10 
SoCal, and my avatar is so ****ing small you cant see it
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I doubt any of the 20 banks exposed to the BK of Chrysler didnt have a TON of CDS on their positions.....probably thru AIG and a few other RE or large insurance companies, Chrysler goes BK, the common gets wiped, that triggers CDS events all over the place....So who backs up these insolvent companies that took the counter party risk of CDS? ....... Yeah, if you want to know who backs them up, just look in the mirror.....You are an insurance company owner and you probably didn't even know it! Usually, (depending on how the CDS was structured) a BK on the debt is wayyyyy more profitable for them than a reorganization thru the BK system. ---------- Cause GS got all the beef.....Mliu Last modified:
2009-05-01 09:11:41 by bear
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Maybe. The problem is that we can't find out because there is no O/I reporting or transaction tracking through having those CDS on an exchange. I believe this is true Bear, but I can't prove it. But what I do know is that some of the other debtholders objected and prefer to take their changes with the judge. That's how its supposed to work when someone objects, and for Obama to go off on them is outrageous. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-01 09:11:56
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Wisc-xc Posts: 4828 Incept: 2007-07-14
outside chicago
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Hmmm, wonder how secure the taxpayer can feel regarding the $8BB in DIP financing? At any rate unusual for a Ch11 filing, no?
2009-05-01 09:16:23
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Bear Posts: 6649 Incept: 2007-07-10
SoCal, and my avatar is so ****ing small you cant see it
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I totally agree....OTC CDS will be a thing of the past in a few years, but even if it was enacted now, it wont help the current problems were facing, but I think its too late for forcing regulation of a transparent exchange for CDS to be of any value to the immediate health of our economy. Check and checkmate....Congress and Obama will make sure the pigmen of this generation win again ---------- Cause GS got all the beef.....Mliu Last modified:
2009-05-01 09:23:24 by bear
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Bozonian Posts: 14033 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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What about this recent story about 234 billion at risk at AIG? Is this related to GM and Chrysler? The actual facts in the story seem like bull****. Why would someone leaving a company trigger a default? http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNew.... ---------- I'm so depressed about outsourcing I called the suicide hotline and got a call center in Pakistan. They got all excited and asked me if I could drive a truck. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice. Last modified:
2009-05-01 10:15:35 by bozonian
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Arkroyal Posts: 87 Incept: 2009-02-04 St. Augustine, FL
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Rut-roh - M1 Multiplier took a really big dip: 2/25/09 - 0.956 3/11/09 - 1.000 3/25/09 - 0.902 4/08/09 - 0.913 4/22/09 - 0.862
2009-05-01 10:28:24
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Bozonian Posts: 14033 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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Is that the velocity of money speedometer?
---------- I'm so depressed about outsourcing I called the suicide hotline and got a call center in Pakistan. They got all excited and asked me if I could drive a truck. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
2009-05-01 10:44:53
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Redfigures Posts: 705 Incept: 2008-02-24
State of Flux
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Hmmm. Tarp fund recipients bow to Obama. Non-tarp recipients tell him to ****-off. That's one possible scenario.
2009-05-01 10:57:43
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Bubbasixpack Posts: 67 Incept: 2008-12-09
DFW
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Bozonian wrote..Why would someone leaving a company trigger a default? http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/ak.... Something in the contract about a 'change of control'.
2009-05-01 11:06:29
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Bigcat Posts: 1523 Incept: 2008-09-10 
Nice, France
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Interesting investigation series on Cerberus here: ---------- "When the goal shifts to simple survival for the Fed their goals will change drastically and their strategy will adjust accordingly...Like Congress, the Fed will throw its "allies" under the bus when they become a political liability. Look at Mozillo now! " Sushihorn, 07/09
2009-05-01 11:11:19
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Arkroyal Posts: 87 Incept: 2009-02-04 St. Augustine, FL
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Bozonian, the figures are from the St. Louis fed. website: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/ser....
2009-05-01 11:17:57
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Perfectstorm Posts: 188 Incept: 2008-02-25
florida
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Gov sure rolled fast on the 4 billion....where the **** did it go that fast? What were the terms? Wonder how GS is doing? And what swap the taxpayer honors 100% money good to those aholes. Proper lending should be last money in is first money out. Wonder what else bennies holding on the balance sheet that's also a zero if this went there in a handful of weeks? Fed and treasury are driving our armored truck at high speed full of borrowed money with all the doors and windows open on purpose.
2009-05-01 11:19:10
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Sunriser1 Posts: 1879 Incept: 2007-10-30
lake tahoe nevada
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They think this can be settled in sixty days?
---------- "CHAPTER 9"
2009-05-01 12:05:39
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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That ain't gonna happen unless The Judge is bought off. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-01 12:08:38
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Hihoherewego Posts: 595 Incept: 2009-02-25
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Get a load of this..... More wrinkles than a 45 year old Sharpei..... http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/05/ho....
2009-05-01 12:38:33
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Genesis Posts: 71432 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Yep. The question is whether there is a sharp judge or a rubber-stamp behind the bench. If I was sitting behind the bench and that came in front of me with what amounts to an allegation of a sham "sale" I'd toss it out of court so fast their heads would spin. But not all judges follow the law, which can be a problem. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-05-01 12:48:47
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Schwantz Posts: 5077 Incept: 2007-11-12
Monkey Do
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The pols are preparing against political risk for when more tax money goes to propping up AIG for its Chrysler CDSs going TO those same hedge funds. They are setting up the target right now.
---------- Dives sum, si non reddo eis quibus debeo Smash the Keynesian idiocracy!
2009-05-01 14:19:46
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Mortgageguymn Posts: 182 Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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If Obama wants not to subsidize the so-called "hedge funds", he should make sure we don't give any MORE money to AIG to help pay out the probably CDS's.
---------- "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." - Harold Hecuba
2009-05-01 14:37:20
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Chris92346 Posts: 647 Incept: 2009-03-25
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How did this bankruptcy have NO impact in equities? Was it totaly priced in already?
2009-05-01 15:33:05
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Flapdoodle Posts: 659 Incept: 2008-01-25
La Serena, Chile
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Folks, it seems to me that .gov putting Chrysler down was perhaps in no small measure as an example to scare GM bondholders - this is going to be the big one.
---------- --Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors. - African Proverb
2009-05-01 16:01:49
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Bigcat Posts: 1523 Incept: 2008-09-10
Nice, France
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This is the teflon market. more $hit, the less sticks. Am I wrong to think that until Goldman -N-The-Gang decide to turn, the market will be drifting higher?? ---------- "When the goal shifts to simple survival for the Fed their goals will change drastically and their strategy will adjust accordingly...Like Congress, the Fed will throw its "allies" under the bus when they become a political liability. Look at Mozillo now! " Sushihorn, 07/09
2009-05-01 16:45:27
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Musashi Posts: 2952 Incept: 2007-11-06 Behind the Irony Curtain
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I could not figure out why Fiat would even consider working with the UAW as they have experience with unions and in Africa. This morning there was a collection of MI politicians, including the head welfare queen, making all sorts of statements about the absolute need for Fiat to actually manufacture the cars in the US. Knowing that the existing lines are totally unsuitable to produce different and much smaller platforms, IMO Fiat's reasons are now clear. I bet a dollar against a dime that what they are looking for in this deal is to sell as many cars as possible through the existing dealer network, dealing to a significant degree with the overcapacity they now have in their Euro and South American factories as it would take years to retool the US lines and transfer the technology. They would split before any of their own money has to be invested, just like last time when they were confronted with massive and growing warranty expenses. If forced to by .gov they would transfer technology from last generation obsolete platforms which costs them nothing. As long as they don't have any skin in the game, even selling 2 cars they would be ahead, as all the expenses would be shouldered by US taxpayers. No way this can work, it is just a black hole for taxpayer money to transfer wealth to the UAW.
2009-05-01 16:47:00
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Blankfiend Posts: 1736 Incept: 2009-02-07
MA
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A lot of talk has been made of how the UAW will be the major shareholder in the new company. That will be strictly temporary. The actual owner will be the UAW's VEBA (their Voluntary Employee Benefit Association for health care). Since you can't pay hospital bills with stock, the VEBA will have to rapidly sell shares to cover expenses.
---------- My Elliott Wave Blog: http://blankfiendsew.blogspot.com/ Democrats and Republicans are like M&M's - different colors on the outside and full of brown stuff on the inside.
2009-05-01 20:21:23
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Setag Posts: 154 Incept: 2007-10-10
Georgia
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I would say smart. Chrysler got lucky and will have Judge Arthur Gonzalez to preside over the bankruptcy fillings. Same judge that presided over Enron and Worldcom. My guess is he will not stay in step with "the Obama plan that secured lenders make concessions to unsecured creditors--namely employees in the United Auto Workers union".
2009-05-01 21:17:42
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