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| User Info | China Declares Economic War? in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archi....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-10-02 13:46:05
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Haus Posts: 7 Incept: 2008-09-25
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I have been talking with my friends about this for years. We have allowed foreign countries to own such a large percent of out treasuries and debt, that we are forever slaves to them. If I was china, you bet I would be making all sorts of threats to control American policy. The only thing I do not understand is why involve congress at all. The Fed has already printed tons of money and thrown it at this mess and they didn't need congress. Does the Fed get paid back from this 700 bln err 850bln? I am angry and scared as hell. I do not know how to asset allocate my retirement right now thanks to this mess. Even holding cash has a significant risk at this point, despite the dollar rallying today. I have come to look at this bailout bill as a win-win. If they do not pass it, I was gain some faith with the government. If they pass it, this may start the revolution this country badly needs. By this I mean, the people will unite and get control of their country again. We will learn to live on less. And one question that is bugging me about this whole mess. How is it that credit became a entitlement or right? Ok, I am worked up again...
2008-10-02 14:10:44
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Bluntfacts Posts: 693 Incept: 2007-10-09 Las Vegas, Nevada
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Bluntfacts has sent a message and has requested it be posted. Here it is... Economic WAR? Does anyone remember the card game called WAR? Before the cards are played, the result is not known. In the real world, this is not a war. It is an INVASION. A non-violent takeover of the country. Think about it. Does Idiot Nation really care about who owns what, as long as the machine spits out currency? We are now basically occupants in the USA; we live here and consider ourselves to be citizens. After that, we have lost control of our future. In a previous post, I was hoping for under 60 in the Senate vote. I wasn't even close. I think everyone knows what will happen next. So to readers and posters, REALLY enjoy what is now reality. It is going to change; and I fear not for the better for most folks. That is a shame, because I have met and talked to some great regular folks in just the last 24 hours and they don't deserve what is going to happen. Greetings from Utah and may God Bless America. ---------- "Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964.
2008-10-02 14:36:58
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Themortgagedude Posts: 3930 Incept: 2007-12-17 
saint louis
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I got me an idea. You own treasury debt, we'll honor it if you're an American. If not **** off. If its any other debt let it stand as it is. If the underlying instruments perform you get your money. Other than that **** off. And if you would ever like to sell us anything again, I'd like a ****ing apology. Did you hear that you lead poisoning mother f'ers. And from now on how bout some freaking tariffs on those ****ers. Steal and counterfeit all of our stuff will ya - and hold us hostage for $$$. Well **** off. AND I DON'T GIVE A FLYING **** WHAT THIS MEANS TO THE WORLD. **** EM ALL, WE'RE BRINGING OUR TROOPS HOME. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SELL US OIL - FINE WE'LL FIND ANOTHER WAY. CNG ANYONE? IT'S BAD ENOUGH OUR POLITICIANS TRYING TO **** US, NOW THE WHOLE WORLD WANTS TO SHOVE IT UP J6P'S ASS. WELL I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, COME ON EVERYBODY SING ALONG WITH ME. AT LEAST I KNOW I'M FREE. Well I don't feel so free today and out comes the  and before long the  .I'm tired of this **** and would just as soon live in isolation here. ---------- "These are interesting times. We don't trust the government, we don't trust the legal system, we don't trust the media, and we don't trust each other! We've undermined all authority, and with it, the basis for replacing it! It's like a six-year-old's dream come true!"
2008-10-02 14:39:51
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Eleua Posts: 9907 Incept: 2007-07-05 
N 47.72/ W 122.55
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Three words: Most Favored Nation There is our leverage. Wal-Mart would get pounded into the earth's core, but we need to tell China that two can play economic war. ---------- http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/
2008-10-02 14:42:09
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Mm^^ Posts: 2330 Incept: 2008-10-01
Gone, Baby, Gone
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I've been shouting into the abyss for years. Think about it.........It's the perfect play. China exports all the junk they can make. We sent them dollars. They buy T-Bonds with our dollars. Then notes, then bills. Then they buy Fannie and Fredrick. More yield, and ZERO risk. They hedge with their ownership and control of our debt. They say "jump." Congress replies, "how High (or how low) do you want us to go?" Game. Set. Match. ---------- I always leave cookies.
2008-10-02 14:50:42
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Krzelune Posts: 2079 Incept: 2007-10-08
DFW
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If we pull MFN then they might poison our candy and pet food. 
2008-10-02 14:52:09
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Eleua Posts: 9907 Incept: 2007-07-05
N 47.72/ W 122.55
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Krzelune wrote..If we pull MFN then they might poison our candy and pet food. Not if it's sitting on their piers in Shanghai. ---------- http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/
2008-10-02 15:01:49
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Genesis Posts: 71431 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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Uh, that was sarcasm. They already poisoned the pet food and candy. Oh, and baby formula too. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2008-10-02 15:04:53
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Krzelune Posts: 2079 Incept: 2007-10-08
DFW
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I agree with you El, I was just throwing on more gas with current news and trying to be funny. My wife doesn't laugh at my jokes either.
2008-10-02 15:05:07
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Eleua Posts: 9907 Incept: 2007-07-05
N 47.72/ W 122.55
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I got it. Thanks. When I was 7 years old (1974), I would play on a swing that my grandfather built on a huge fir tree. I would take pine-cones and start swinging as high as I could, and pretend I was a Navy pilot trying to bomb China. 34 years later... ---------- http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/
2008-10-02 15:08:29
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Mm^^ Posts: 2330 Incept: 2008-10-01
Gone, Baby, Gone
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>>"Not if it's sitting on their piers in Shanghai." Sure, for dreamers. Go long Harbor Freight Short J6P. ---------- I always leave cookies.
2008-10-02 15:08:55
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Bw8472 Posts: 6446 Incept: 2007-06-28
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Very few of them would expect us to stop this, prove them WRONG!! There is tremendous anger at how this country is being led to the slaughter, real people do care, they may not know what to do but people understand. It's time to show the world we are not a bunch of whining lazy ****s but still a proud people that will eat ****ing moldy bread before we kiss your ass. **** THEM!!! ---------- At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide. ~Abraham Lincoln Last modified:
2008-10-02 15:12:42 by bw8472
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Guydaley Posts: 10915 Incept: 2007-07-10
Missouri & Wyoming
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I don't understand a lot of the comments in this thread. China DID NOT make us deficit spend until we were in $10 trillion in the hole. CHINA DID NOT tell us to design and build, foster and perpetuate massive Ponzi schemes. CHINA DID NOT tell us to never live within our means. We dug our own hole. To lay any type of blame on China is simply playing the blame game. You don't have to look any further than our own borders for where the root of the problem lies. Like I've said in previous threads, maintaining a balanced checkbook is just frowned upon. Its not the American way is it? But the blame game sure is. ---------- 2/17/09 = Hogzilla bill was signed = THE POINT OF NO RETURN = Cheers to the Reset, LONG LIVE THE UNDERGROUND ECONOMY! STARVE the BEAST! Adopt a J6P. Last modified:
2008-10-02 15:19:57 by guydaley
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Bubbazanetti Posts: 211 Incept: 2007-08-23 Eugene, OR
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We declared economic war on China when we sold them a bill of goods. Say what you want, but they do not see it as a private dispute.
2008-10-02 15:18:55
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Bw8472 Posts: 6446 Incept: 2007-06-28
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Ok Guy we all get that. They do have a history of coercion when they get you trapped, we might of walked right in but they've enabled it by buying. What they don't get to do is influence our policy past simply cutting it off, no threats cut it off or shut up. Now our elected officials and by extension us should have cut it off a long time ago so I'm not absolving any of us for the blame I'm simply stating the current situation must not stand. They can have at these idiots in court, they can not buy our debt but they will not threaten to overtake our elected officials without my considering it war. ---------- At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide. ~Abraham Lincoln
2008-10-02 15:21:05
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Guydaley Posts: 10915 Incept: 2007-07-10
Missouri & Wyoming
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Using the term "economic war" is the basis for an excuse. An excuse to escalate and "one of KDs favorite terms" OBFUSCATE!!!! And the obfuscation is a cover for our own failings. But I don't really want to get off track. More important are contemplating strategies for when this bill gets passed. I see I'm getting screwed once again by taking stuff off the table just as this damn thing is about to pass. Maybe its another, "pass the bill or we will crash" message to Congress. Who knows. ---------- 2/17/09 = Hogzilla bill was signed = THE POINT OF NO RETURN = Cheers to the Reset, LONG LIVE THE UNDERGROUND ECONOMY! STARVE the BEAST! Adopt a J6P.
2008-10-02 15:24:33
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Mm^^ Posts: 2330 Incept: 2008-10-01
Gone, Baby, Gone
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No doubt it's not China's fault that we as a nation, and as a people didn't (couldn't) or wouldn't live within our means. Nobody wants to pay higher taxes, but everybody wants what it wants. Congress is there to oblige them. But not now. The majority wants this bill to be a non-starter. They can't, because that would mean the end of our nation. They just hope to get home before the truth is really known. If I were in Congress, I'd resign and state the reasons on CNN. ---------- I always leave cookies.
2008-10-02 15:28:44
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Guydaley Posts: 10915 Incept: 2007-07-10
Missouri & Wyoming
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BW said Quote:They can have at these idiots in court, they can not buy our debt but they will not threaten to overtake our elected officials without my considering it war. Whose fault is it that we have elected officials that are easily bribed and coerced? Its not the Chinese, I guarantee you that. If they weren't so easily bribed, would we have $10 trillion in debt today? ---------- 2/17/09 = Hogzilla bill was signed = THE POINT OF NO RETURN = Cheers to the Reset, LONG LIVE THE UNDERGROUND ECONOMY! STARVE the BEAST! Adopt a J6P.
2008-10-02 15:28:51
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Tinfoil Posts: 547 Incept: 2007-12-01
Westlake Village, CA
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I don't know Brad Sherman but I asked around and those here that know him say that he is *really* sharp; UCLA/Harvard Law, background in both law and accounting. He understands and digs into things in the financial world that most don't want to bother with. This issue is right up his alley. This is not some crackpot - he's the real deal, and if he says this bill is a trojan horse, we need to sit up and pay attention.
2008-10-02 15:37:29
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Panamax Posts: 552 Incept: 2008-07-17
Sunnyvale
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wut Guydaley said ^^ The path of least resistance gets you into some pretty god-awful jams, and we've been on this track since ca. 1982 (outside of episodes like the first Bush not vetoing the Democratic tax hike of 1990 like he promised in 1988 to do).
2008-10-02 15:40:54
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Neolotus Posts: 29 Incept: 2007-10-30 12 Grimmauld Place
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Hm...payback's a bitch. We've messed with so many countries around the world over the past century and now the shoe is on the other foot. As they say, what goes around comes around and we have done a great deal to atone for. But you wouldn't know about any of that given that knowing history or understanding foreign policy is not something Americans have much interest in. Sorry to **** on your self-righteous parade but your ignorance of the bigger picture is egregiously appalling. Ever hear of Mark Twain? He was chair of the Anti-Imperialist League in the very early 1900s as a result of the Phillipine War, but of course that's part of history and who cares about that, right?
---------- Rick Wright is dead. Long Live Pink Floyd! "Listen son, said the man with the gun, There's room for you inside [...] With, without, And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about"
2008-10-02 15:42:47
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Eleua Posts: 9907 Incept: 2007-07-05
N 47.72/ W 122.55
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I'm not saying we didn't dig this hole. We did. China sold us cheap crap at Wal-Mart, and purchased toxic mortgages in return. They bought those mortgages knowing the risks. Now they want a refund. Sorry, no refunds. If they want to take on the US in any form of warfare, they will have their hands full. They have every right to demand a $700B ransom. We have every right to tell them to get stuffed, and yank their MFN status. In that situation, we lose, but they get positively driven into the ground. They would have half a billion excess people, overnight. Good luck untangling that hairball. Every nation that has tangled with us has found out that we play rough. It's best to be on our good side. Now, if we can end this streak of pussillanimous simps that have been in the White House (and on the campaign trail) for the last 20 years, we might be able to do something about this. ---------- http://clearcutbainbridge.blogspot.com/
2008-10-02 15:56:54
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Mm^^ Posts: 2330 Incept: 2008-10-01
Gone, Baby, Gone
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Yes, all true......BUT someone wanted to know what to do NOW? My thesis is this: Obama is elected. We have no money for his programs. He cuts WAY back on defense spending, raises taxes on most, and comes clean about this mess (eventually). Market reforms are enacted, and everybody learns to do without the bling. Now what? I'm thinking long on essentials, and am actively buying now. I have no idea what the dollar will do long term. ---------- I always leave cookies.
2008-10-02 15:58:23
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Tesla Posts: 8174 Incept: 2008-04-03
Delaware
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Hey Neolotus - [****_you]  Your blanket statement that "knowing history or understanding foreign policy is not something Americans have much interest in" is so full of **** that you can't see your own empty mind. Go play somewhere the idiots like you hang out: www.democraticunderground.com You'll find lots of anti-Americans over there who would love to listen to you. ---------- "Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." Samuel Adams I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. - Emiliano Zapata
2008-10-02 16:12:49
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