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Genesis Posts: 71422 Incept: 2007-06-26 
KD^2 
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http://market-ticker.org/archives/1315-B....
---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me
2009-08-10 09:09:44
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Pabloescobar Posts: 5325 Incept: 2008-04-23 
Pacific Northwest
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My 18 year old son has a separate checking account with a debit card. In May, his mom forgot to put money in, and he went on his usual uses, lunch, coffee, dates, movies, and used the card 18 times in an overdraft mode. Most of the charges were under $4.00 His response? I thought I had money in the account, because it wasn't declined. And please don't let me know how stupid we are as parents. I'm not pleased with the mother either. How do folks balance checkbooks anymore, when no one writes checks? Many point of purchases don't give receipts. Just spend, spend, spend. No balance info necessary. I explained to him that his many $2 cokes, really cost $37 dollars each, or 4 hours work at his minimum wage job, so I hope it was worth it. ---------- “Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house.” - Jules Henri Poincare
2009-08-10 09:18:48
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Pauperbear Posts: 1406 Incept: 2008-01-22 
norwalk, ct Online
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Lets make this one viral people. It doesn't effect me as I never have that problem but it's an outright indictment of our leaders and the cozy relations with the banksters. Sent to the Concritters.
---------- The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is. Winston Churchill
2009-08-10 09:20:07
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Swordsman Posts: 20 Incept: 2009-01-10 Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Overdrafts are a 100% preventable event. Those folks who can't control themselves regarding overdrafts should be not only a written budget but also using a cash envelope system like grandma used.
2009-08-10 09:22:46
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Genesis Posts: 71422 Incept: 2007-06-26
KD^2
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When you're at the ATM it is one more button push to check the balance before you hit "WITHDRAW". When you're at the debit card terminal and the gas station just authorized $100 against your account for a $20 gasoline purchase (and by the way they ALL do that), exactly how are you supposed to know that happened? There is no excuse - zero - for a bank allowing a debit or ATM transaction against an account that would result in an overdraft without your EXPLICIT authorization on a PER TRANSACTION basis. ---------- "The monetary base in ALL modern monetary systems is the sum of unencumbered assets against which one is both WILLING AND ABLE to borrow." - Me Last modified:
2009-08-10 09:30:57 by genesis
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Wisc-xc Posts: 4824 Incept: 2007-07-14
outside chicago Online
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The cut off of business day shenanigans happened exactly once to me several years back. When I found out about this I was livid and told the bank to cut the **** out or clean my acct out that day; and it was not a small amount that I was going to place elsewhere. Within the hour they capitulated. Back then, however, there was such a thing as meaningful reserve ratios, which I'm sure helped them see things my way. Now I'm not so sure that the threat to move a large sum elsewhere (six figures or more) would do any good given the RR nonsense running about. At any rate, subsequent to that episode, I'm either paying by cash, credit or ,yes, even occasional check), not debit, and getting along nicely.
2009-08-10 09:30:04
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Mobi Posts: 29 Incept: 2009-02-26 NY State
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I hate the overdraft system. Last time, when I tried to open a saving account with a CU, they told me there is no way to get rid of the overdraft (which means you get a denial at ATM when you don't have enough fund.) I mean, even for a SAVING account! Karl, As you know of, is that true? Mobi
2009-08-10 09:30:09
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Mblomquist Posts: 27 Incept: 2009-01-09 Los Gatos
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Bankster story. A friend of mine owed me a few hundred dollars. He wrote me a check on a Wells Fargo account and I needed some cash for the weekend. Instead of depositing the check in my bank I live closer to a Wells Fargo so I went there to cash the check. Wells Fargo charged a $5 check cashing fee to cash his check. I know it was a small amount $5 on $450, but come on. There is no charge if I deposit the money in my account and Wells has to pay for it; how can they charge to cash a check? If they want to charge someone they should charge the person who drafted the check; who has the existing agreement with Wells. I don't have a relationship with Wells and find it completely unacceptable that they are interfering with this transaction. I have called an attorney friend of mine about a class action. Is anyone aware of the law that would allow them to interfere in my transaction.
2009-08-10 09:32:21
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Pabloescobar Posts: 5325 Incept: 2008-04-23
Pacific Northwest
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Think about it from an 18 year old's perspective.... What, exactly, does he need cash for? There are very, very few activities an 18 year old does on a daily basis that needs money that doesn't accept a debit or credit card. McDonalds and other fast food? All card accepted now. Quickmarts and gas? All card accepted now. Stores? Vending machines? School Supplies? Gas? I have to FIGHT to make him and his mom to carry cash. I bet you, he has never, ever, made a cash withdrawal for an ATM. Why, when you can get a $20 back with that coke purchased at the grocery store? ---------- “Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house.” - Jules Henri Poincare
2009-08-10 09:33:20
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Sboady Posts: 50 Incept: 2008-03-02
Cape Horn Online
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So wait, without that $38B in extortion money, how much did the banks make last year...? I remember when scooting out of Colorado, Xcel sent me the final "autowithdraw" bill for $9 from my (empty and closed) account, and hit me with a penalty, before attempting to returning my deposit ($10). I don't recall what happened with the bank account, but Xcel kept sending me bills for $0,90 for several years afterwards, to Europe! (at $2,10 postage each). And even better, I could only pay by calling an 0800 number! I think I tried once, and then just gave up. Silly americans. ---------- ‘We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt’ Vice President Joe Biden.
2009-08-10 09:36:58
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1891 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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Karl...I hear ya!!! My story (well - my mom's story) My mother faced a problem last month. She knew she was close on the checking account and thought she had over draft protection with her money market account (Excess of $70,000 at that bank). She watched her online banking statement all day and saw 7 small checks hit leaving with about $80 in the bank. She started the day with $196. Then an automatic payment hit she forgot about at 3:00. It immediatley went to be listed as the first payment of the day. Since it was $225 it put her over right away and the other 7 checks all went as overdrawn. She was hit with 8 $31 fees that day. I went down and tried to straighten it out and they asked me....what are you going to do close the account? I told them of course not. I was closing the money market account and wold like a bankers check before I leave. They immediatly withdrew all charges and apologized for the glitch in the system. They also informed me that the computer did not pick up the fact that she DID have over-draft protection and none of this should have happened. They are right afbout 1 thing....it never should have happened, I have warned my mother about playing games for ever. Never let the checking account go under $300.....PERIOD. ---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. Why is Franklin Raines a free man? "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009 
2009-08-10 09:39:38
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Eli Posts: 3844 Incept: 2007-09-10
Online
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I love the check holding scam they run too. If you are close to being overdrawn they will hold that check for an extra day, just to make sure you have every opportunity to overdraft.
2009-08-10 09:52:07
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Icanhasbailout Posts: 2170 Incept: 2009-03-10
Imaginationland
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Even if the regulators weren't bribed, it wouldn't matter a damn, because the legislators are. Regulators at best can only enforce the law as written; when the laws are written to allow people to steal freely, regulators can do nothing.
---------- I can has TARP? http://icanhastarp.com
2009-08-10 09:57:09
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Utowna Posts: 165 Incept: 2008-02-26
Ancocisco
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I have been carping about this for a few years now after getting stung by Wachovia for small overdrafts that cost $30 per event. The story gets better when you consider that around the Christmas holiday many banks are slow to update your bank balance after withdrawals, leading you to think that you have more money in the account than you actually have. They are crooks!
---------- Great Hunter of Bull and Bear.
2009-08-10 10:07:33
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Mrobe10586 Posts: 49 Incept: 2008-12-30
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Here's the flipside. While shopping yesterday in prep for sending my daughter off to college, I hit five or six different stores with purchases for $50-$100, all on the same credit card, the only one I use because I get airline miles. At the last store I tried to charge $655 on the same card. It was DECLINED. Imagine. That actually does happen. When I got home I had a message from the fraud department asking me to verify my "transactions." Of course all was good and they said I could "go back to the merchant and have him re-authorize the transaction." ****ers cheated me out of 655 miles since I had to use a different card. They can sure hit the stop button fast enough if it might COST them money.
2009-08-10 10:08:52
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Capeman Posts: 2169 Incept: 2007-07-12
San Diego
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Yep, WaMu and Wells Fargo were the worst. My SO used to go over all of the time because she couldn't balance her account with the many small charges she made. She went into WaMu once and asked them to remove the overdraft option on her account. That way when she made a purchase putting her over it would be declined. They said there was no way for them to remove the option from her account and this came from everyone from the teller to the bank manager. It's obviously a planned and relied upon part of their profit model. I finally got her to go to a credit union instead and all of the **** stopped and amazingly she rarely has overdrafts without having changed her spending behaviour. ---------- "I believe all God's creatures have a soul... except bears, bears are Godless killing machines!" - Steven Colbert
2009-08-10 10:09:20
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Curbyourrisk Posts: 1891 Incept: 2008-08-19 Long Island, New York
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Quote:Here's the flipside. While shopping yesterday in prep for sending my daughter off to college, I hit five or six different stores with purchases for $50-$100, all on the same credit card, the only one I use because I get airline miles. Funny you should mention this story. Last year when helping my sister move from North Carolina to Philly I rented a U-haul truck and packed it myself. Those things (even the new one I got) suck on gas and I had to fill it a few times. When I was about an hour away I had my card rejected and the guy in the booth told me I needed to call the credit card company immediately as he had already filled my truck. They said they rejected it becuase the pattern was out of my normal daily spending (never use it, so I guess they were right) . After with speaking to 2 service reps and a manager (on a sunday) they decided to release the hold and pay for the gas. They actually told me I should consider using multiple cards on trips like that so it does not happen again. WTF?!? ---------- Hopium: hope filled delirium preached by the White House and Swallowed whole by the American Sheeple. Why is Franklin Raines a free man? "We saved the world from disaster" - Ben Bernanke - Jackson Hole 08/21/2009
2009-08-10 10:14:37
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Abn0rmal Posts: 2320 Incept: 2009-01-10
DFW
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Quote:Overdrafts are a 100% preventable event.I have a separate checking account that is only used for electronic bill payment (rent, electricity, mobile phone, etc). Twice a month I transfer a budgeted amount from my main checking account to this account. All the accounts are set up for automatic payment. It works great until Tmobile decided to bill me for some charges that should not have been incurred due the plan I am on. They pull triple the normal amount out which causes the rent EFT to bounce. Now my bank and my apartment wants to charge me for the bounced check. So yes, overdrafts are preventable but they are not always caused by excessive spending. They can also be caused by excessive trust in the companies you deal with to bill you correctly. Last modified:
2009-08-10 10:43:17 by jbyer
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Critter Posts: 188 Incept: 2008-01-26 iowa
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70% of the overdrafts happen at a POS terminal or ATM, not by writing a check. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that was new news to this household. we didn't even know overdrafts were allowed from an atm. the other half guessed 10m on over draft fees. 38b!!!! wow. we need a news paper that will carry some of your daily tickers in their editorial section.
2009-08-10 10:31:24
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Capeman Posts: 2169 Incept: 2007-07-12
San Diego
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Jbyer- That's why whenever a company I deal with asks me to start up their convenient Autodebit program for billing I tell them no. I specifically tell them that I want to see exactly what they are billing me for each time before I choose to pay because I don't trust their computers. It sucks but it's a once or twice a month program for me to spend 30 minutes looking through everything to make sure I don't get overcharged. You'd be surprised how many extra charges I've found and called various companies on. ---------- "I believe all God's creatures have a soul... except bears, bears are Godless killing machines!" - Steven Colbert
2009-08-10 10:31:40
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Yermawm Posts: 91 Incept: 2009-04-20 SoCal
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Cash is getting even more difficult to use. Most (if not all) airlines no longer accept cash for those lousy in-flight snack boxes. ---------- Hide the decline. The new math.
2009-08-10 10:34:23
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Degaston Posts: 1100 Incept: 2007-07-27
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Jbyer just pointed out why I keep 2500 min. in my checking acount.
---------- 8/20/2009: Strong Buy ratings - PACR, GIGM, UNG, CSR, PBW - 10 percent in the market right now with 90 percent in cash
2009-08-10 10:42:45
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Themightymonarch Posts: 59 Incept: 2009-06-24
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Quote:Cash is getting even more difficult to use. Most (if not all) airlines no longer accept cash for those lousy in-flight snack boxes. I noticed that too on a recent flight. Good thing I pack my carry-on with snacks instead of eating their freeze-dried poison. Maybe unrelated but somewhat interesting, some supermarket chains who sell gift cards for multiple retailers are no longer accepting credit cards for purchases. The reasoning given was that a lot of people were maxing out their cards buying them then reporting the card stolen. Oddly enough, other retailers are still accepting credit cards and cash for gift card purchases but are no longer accepting checks.
2009-08-10 10:43:08
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Lookforme Posts: 55 Incept: 2007-11-25 SW, Florida
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I bought an item on Ebay, and when I paid, I accidentally authorized the money to come from a 5/3rd account I rarely use. PayPal states if funds are not available, they will pull the money from your back-up source, which is a VISA. Guess what? 5/3/PAID the $21.00 transaction, when only $15.00 was available, and then hit me with over $65.00 in charges because I didn't catch the snafu for 2 days. I raised hell and got 1/2 of it reversed, and told them NEVER to make a decision to pay transactions when there is no money. The Manager said that most people want them to pay the overdraft if they are at a movie and are $5.00 short.
---------- The Fed trying to fix the market it like wiping your ass with a Hula-hoop!
2009-08-10 10:54:21
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2dogs Posts: 119 Incept: 2009-03-25
Geithner propping up zombie banksters
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Mrobe10586 wrote..Here's the flipside. While shopping yesterday in prep for sending my daughter off to college, I hit five or six different stores with purchases for $50-$100, all on the same credit card, the only one I use because I get airline miles. Same thing, last week - 2 daughters in college... Recurring expenses, well within my normal use - textbooks and yearly optometrist visit, if they had bothered to check my transaction records. The charge at the optometrist was declined because they suspected 'fraud.' No basis for that whatsoever. I always pay my full bill each month; their risk was ridiculously low. I'm beginning to suspect that they're setting an invisible daily 'limit' on how much in charges they will allow on each account to control their cash flow. Over the top? maybe...
2009-08-10 11:10:03
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