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User Info Here we go again............ in forum [General]
Aztrader
Posts: 4884
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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Just got this email:

Good news! Your help is needed! On July 31, several members of Congress introduced H.R. 6694 which would save Downpayment Assistance.indefinitely! But with your help, DPA could be reinstated by the October 1st deadline that's currently in place.

For the next 5 weeks, Congress will be out of session and we will have a unique opportunity to see them at their home office and convince them to support H.R. 6694. We're targeting Senators because historically, they have not understood the value of Downpayment Assistance to homebuyers and the current economy. Here's how you can most effectively influence your Senators.

Go to RallyForHomeownership.com and send comments to Congress asking to specifically pass H.R 6694.


Call you State Senators and tell them why they need to support H.R. 6694.
Get Your Senators' Phone Number HERE!

Get a group of people together and visit your Senators at their local office and tell them why they need to support H.R. 6694.
Get Your State Senators' office address and tips on setting up an appointment HERE. !




Thanks,
Kelly Schwedland
RallyForHomeownership.org
886.570.0830

2008-08-25 17:54:13
Etz3l
Posts: 8658
Incept: 2007-06-26
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POS site doesn't have any contact info.

Probably paid for by pigmen.

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I could slit my wrists and people would cheer - L. Blankfein.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8jm61vk2....
2008-08-25 17:57:33
Genesis
Posts: 66463
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Royal Flush!
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Registrant:
The Genesis Foundation
259 Indiana Ave
Valparaiso, Indiana 46383
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: RALLYFORHOMEOWNERSHIP.COM
Created on: 09-Jul-08
Expires on: 09-Jul-10
Last Updated on: 09-Jul-08

Administrative Contact:
Moore, John maggiem@abdus.com
The Genesis Foundation
259 Indiana Ave
Valparaiso, Indiana 46383
United States
(219) 464-0004 Fax --

Technical Contact:
Moore, John maggiem@abdus.com
The Genesis Foundation
259 Indiana Ave
Valparaiso, Indiana 46383
United States
(219) 464-0004 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS49.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS50.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

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I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife?
I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects
Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me
2008-08-25 18:01:58
Antone
Posts: 3385
Incept: 2008-02-03

This ain't your grandpa's depression.
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The Genesis Foundation?

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Wir sind gefickt.
Disclosure: My opinions on the economy and trading are two completely separate entities. Sometimes they are correlated, but often not. However, I do not provide investing advice.
2008-08-25 18:04:12
Genesis
Posts: 66463
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Royal Flush!
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I suggest you call the registrant and tell him what you think!

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I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife?
I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects
Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me
2008-08-25 18:05:14
Etz3l
Posts: 8658
Incept: 2007-06-26
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No surprises here,

Quote:
According to documents sent to the buyer and obtained by the Weekly, the asking price on the home was $85,000. But the proposed buyer had bad credit, and the lender wanted a hefty down payment. So the Genesis Foundation, based in Indiana, was brought in to “give” the buyer the $7,200 down payment in return for a $595 fee that was rolled into the loan. In return, the company selling the house gave Genesis a tax-deductible “gift” of equal value and paid Genesis a $750 transaction fee.

It’s illegal for a home seller to give down payment money to a buyer, under federal lending rules. But in this case, the down payment technically came from a charity. In reality, it was just a way to move the money from one pocket to another. The new purchase price for the house was $93,000. So, in the end, the FHA (which requires at least a 3 percent down payment) was backing a higher loan with no real down payment. And instead of an $85,000 loan, the buyer now had a $93,000 loan.

“When these loans don’t get paid, the taxpayers are going to have to cover them,” said Dauphinot, who has been in the business for 30 years. “Everyone likes to portray these foundations as groups that are helping out the poor and getting them into home ownership. But it is all about getting around laws and inflating prices in the market. That house went from $85,000 to $93,000. The borrower now has a bigger loan to cover. That’s not helping the poor.”

The Genesis Foundation gave out nearly $23 million in down payment loans in 2003 (the latest year available on their 501(c)3 charitable foundation tax forms), a geometric increase from just $52,000 in 2000. Illinois-based Partners in Charity gave out $29 million in down payments in 2003. The GAO estimates there are about 50 DAs now operating, and sellers contribute almost all the money — but they get their money back on higher selling prices.

A HUD study of DAs done this year concluded that “allowing these new organizations to flourish has increased the percentage of FHA-insured households with relatively high probabilities of default and foreclosure.” In the process, the report said, credit risks are increased and the transactions contribute to price inflation.

No one at the Genesis Foundation would comment on whether their business contributes to higher home prices or default rates. But Deborah Kroupa, executive director of the Texas United Housing Program, a nonprofit corporation that advocates for moderate- and low-income housing, said she’s appalled that the practice is growing so fast and without government regulation.

“To say these are charity organizations helping the poor is insulting,” Kroupa said. “There needs to be a stop on all this. The FHA is insane for allowing this, because they are allowing 110 percent to be paid for a house by people who cannot afford that. These nonprofits are nothing more than clearinghouses for the lending industry.

“Laws were passed so that buyers couldn’t donate the down payment to a buyer, and then increase the purchase price,” Kroupa continued. “So [the lending industry] came up with a plan to launder the money through nonprofits. They are making megabucks using these nonprofits. HUD needs to see what is happening.

http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?arti....


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I could slit my wrists and people would cheer - L. Blankfein.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8jm61vk2....

Last modified: 2008-08-25 18:24:34 by etz3l

2008-08-25 18:21:54
Travanx
Posts: 2076
Incept: 2007-11-07

Los Angeleez, Killafornia
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Forget DPA! I want a mansion with a Ferrari so I can just sit down all day long and watch TV and then collect unemployment, wellfare and SS. Its just money, everyone should be able to do this.

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My neighbor is not in the best of health. Maybe a couple of prayers for the person who taught me how to drive stick.
2008-08-25 21:31:33
Bear
Posts: 6466
Incept: 2007-07-10

SoCal, and my avatar is so ****ing small you cant see it
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Now that asshat John Maggiem knows how I feel....Thanks for posting that info Gen....A electronic lashing doesn't draw blood, but it still stings like a bastard

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Cause GS got all the beef.....Mliu
2008-08-25 21:34:42
Aztrader
Posts: 4884
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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I am going to do a little more investigating on these guys. I used to live in that area and want to know who is on their board. There has to be a list somewhere. I would love to see how much charitable work they really do.


2008-08-25 22:16:35
Pikachu
Posts: 4862
Incept: 2007-08-24

Down under
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>> The Genesis Foundation

DUDE YOU EVIL #@^$%&@#

just kidding

2008-08-25 23:16:23
Analyzer
Posts: 2152
Incept: 2007-08-22

Paradise
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Actually, in the end, FHA is paying the down payment; but I don't think the folks at FHA gets it. Put it this way... if the seller was actually giving the down payment (as inferred in all these transactions) then the down payment would be DEDUCTED; NOT ADDED to the total price. Of course, it never is! Thus FHA ends up paying the down payment as part of the loan, even though it is rolled into the loan.

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===========================================================
" October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May, March, June, December, August and February."

Mark Twain (1835-1910)
2008-08-26 05:32:42
Yaldor
Posts: 1309
Incept: 2008-05-17
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This is simply criminal - it is fraud. If law makers are helping this they too should be in jail.

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For every crash the probability of someone showing that he predicted it is near 1 .

For every prediction of an imminent crash the probability of it being correct is almost zero

Last modified: 2008-08-26 06:18:29 by yaldor

2008-08-26 06:18:01
Genesis
Posts: 66463
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
Royal Flush!
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This is simply fraud and the institutions and people involved - all of them - need to be indicted.

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I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife?
I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects
Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me
2008-08-26 08:02:02
Loveorhatethemarket
Posts: 1545
Incept: 2007-07-16
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Clearing up some confusion
Quote:
The new purchase price for the house was $93,000. So, in the end, the FHA (which requires at least a 3 percent down payment) was backing a higher loan with no real down payment. And instead of an $85,000 loan, the buyer now had a $93,000 loan.


No they didn't have a 93,000 loan...they had a 93,000-$7,200 down payment = 85,800 loan.

The extra 800 is split in some way between the "charitable org" and the lender.

It is a stupid thing and should be illegal but get the numbers right.

/rant
When did it become everyone's god given right to buy a damn house? If you can't save up 7K to make a down payment what are you going to do when the thing needs a new roof, AC, carpet, paint, etc etc etc. You can't afford it damn.

/rant off


----------
Disclaimer: nothing I say...ever...is investment advice. If you arn't paying me you get what you pay for.
Do your own due diligance. Things I say can contain forward looking statments.

Quote:
I think there is some trouble with the economy. :>
- Slartibartfast
2008-08-26 10:51:23
Gdm
Posts: 109
Incept: 2008-07-24
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I sold a house a few years ago and was blind sided by the DPA. It had some stupid name like Neighborhood Gold or something silly like that. I signed the sales contract with the buyer because they stated Conventional loan as their method of financing. I figured great, the buyer must have enough cash to finish the deal. When I get to closing the original sales contract was modified to show my sale price $5000 higher and that I gave a $5000 concession. The "conventional" loan somehow turned into an FHA and there was a $500 FHA fee on my side of the HUD. I bitched about that and the title company moved it...I think they ate it because the buyer didn't pay it. The appraiser must have done a drive by because this house was absolutely not worth the extra $5000. If I thought it was worth that I would have listed it at that price and kept the extra 5K for myself. The whole thing ****ed me off because I had no knowledge until I was sitting at the closing table. What could I do at that point? Call the whole thing off? I had to close on my new house right afterwords. So I initialed the "changes" to the contract and went on with my life. That sale was recorded at the county at 5K more than it should have and set the comps for the area. Many more people overpaid in that neighborhood due to the DPA.

2008-08-26 11:09:18
Weezie
Posts: 3420
Incept: 2008-05-19
A True American Patriot!
Now shuddap and take your medicine...
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Yeah. Had that happen to us to, Gdm.

We had moved to Austin from Central PA and were happy to simply get rid of the house (the property had some disclosed 'issues' and we were looking for a greater fool). It was something like you described, but we were able to get out of the FHA fee by the owner's grandmother 'gifting' them the extra $500.

Go figure.

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The government isn't ****ing Santa Claus!
2008-08-26 11:13:53
Do_the_math
Posts: 770
Incept: 2007-08-09

Canyon Lake
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Genesis Wrote:
Quote:
This is simply fraud and the institutions and people involved - all of them - need to be indicted.


I've been looking very closely (990's, business filings, court and state records, affiliate businesses) at the major Non Profit SFDPAs and am outraged at what I am seeing from every non profit I look at. Its really ugly.

The BS on some of the sites is inaccurate and confusing. FHA has not approved the SFPDAs nor have the courts ruled decidedly for them. The underwriting guidelines the non profits are posting are incomplete and do not address Mortgagee Letters that post date the 4155.1 which they invaribly post. Furthermore, they ignore that seller funded gifts require a dollar for dollar reduction to the sales price under current FHA guidelines.

The latest scheme is the Indian Tribe Sovereign Nation grants which they claim are exempt from IRS and FHA rulings because they are a Sovereign Nation. Even if they could pull that off, the seller contribution would require a dollar for dollar reduction to sales price. The information posted is bogus, and so are many of the credentials.


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"Now the Fed wants to be the systemic risk regulator. But the Fed is the systemic risk. Giving the Fed more power is like giving the neighborhood kid who broke your window playing baseball in the street a bigger bat and thinking that will fix the problem." -Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning

Last modified: 2008-08-26 11:43:52 by do_the_math

2008-08-26 11:42:48
Fedup
Posts: 198
Incept: 2007-06-26
A True American Patriot!
East Jordan, Michigan
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That is the only way houses are moving here in Michigan. All realtors are in on this scam. The realtors tell the sellers they would have to lower the price of the house more than the cost of a tax-deductible “gift” to sell.
The buyers are told no money down. Regulators just look the other way. It's another way to steady the property tax base.


I agree with Gen This is simply fraud and the institutions and people involved - all of them - need to be indicted.




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Evil prospers when good men stand still


2008-08-26 12:23:30
Gdm
Posts: 109
Incept: 2008-07-24
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Are the realt*****s telling sellers the entire "gift" is tax deductible? Maybe not all DAP's are created equal. When I looked up the DAP used on my sale the website specifically stated the "gift" was not tax deductible. I wanted to take that deduction in a bad way. I know I didn't truly make any gifts, but after the way the deal went down I wanted one little last piece of the pie.

2008-08-26 12:41:29
Colossalc
Posts: 1780
Incept: 2007-12-01
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Quote:
All realtors are in on this scam.


All Realtors are in on every home-related scam.

No offense to the Realtors on the board, but they're largely scum.

2008-08-26 12:55:19
Do_the_math
Posts: 770
Incept: 2007-08-09

Canyon Lake
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Gdm, you are correct, the "gift" is not tax deductible as a charitable contribution, however, it is deductible as a sale expense.

That, in and of itself, shows that is BS.

I am shocked that knowledgeable underwriters are still approving these deals. Any company that is not doing a dollar for dollar reduction to the sales price when a seller contribution is involved will likely end up with non insurable loans.

What DPA company was involved with your sale?

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"Now the Fed wants to be the systemic risk regulator. But the Fed is the systemic risk. Giving the Fed more power is like giving the neighborhood kid who broke your window playing baseball in the street a bigger bat and thinking that will fix the problem." -Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning
2008-08-26 13:26:45
Spitball
Posts: 166
Incept: 2007-12-29
son of a bitch
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Didn't understand at the time it happened, but what Gdm was talking about happened to us. now we know. We were across country and closed with a POA. Someone took advantage of the situation. Just happy to get it sold. errr...


col - "All Realtors are in on every home-related scam."

That maybe true but not every Realtor may know they are involved in a scam. For some it's just business as usual and thats just how the system works. By the way I'm not offended by the comment and I'm not a Realtor.

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Freedom isn't free and we are overdue on a payment.
2008-08-26 13:32:02
Aztrader
Posts: 4884
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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I still get the emails from lenders promoting this scam. "Better Hurry and get your house before Oct 1"............

I have no interest in dealing with these idiots. If I don't have a buyer with at least 15% down and fantastic credit, I will not waste my time. These scams are for desparate people that should not be buying a home. FHA has been turned into the worst subprime scam ever put on the taxpayers.

2008-08-26 13:32:07
Aztrader
Posts: 4884
Incept: 2007-09-10
Scottsdale, AZ
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The Housing Mess
Lending Over Backward
Joshua Zumbrun and Maurna Desmond 08.26.08, 6:00 AM ET




The FHA has been turned into the mortgage industry's lender of last resort. Taxpayer price tag? Maybe $100 billion.

DENVER -- When the nation's politicians take the stage here and later in St. Paul, Minn., you'll hear a lot of talk about saving the decrepit housing market, and lately that means one thing: The Federal Housing Administration.

Watch your wallet.

Heralded as a savior in reversing the mortgage market’s woes, risks to the agency could cost taxpayers dearly, says one mortgage expert, as Washington morphs the FHA from a helping hand for low-income home buyers into a back door bailout for the imploding mortgage industry. Trouble is, there's little choice at this point.

“Nobody is talking is talking about it, but in three years the FHA bailout is going to cost taxpayers at least $100 billion dollars,” said Guy Cecala, a mortgage industry insider and publisher of Inside Mortgage Finance. “Everybody on Capital Hill recognizes that there will be significant costs, but they’re trying to keep the housing spigot open even if it will bring in some bad water down the road.”

With investors all but gone from the mortgage market, the FHA's guarantee insures that lenders will fund loans they'd otherwise back away from. It's a role once filled by the evaporated subprime market. At the height of the lending frenzy in 2006, the proportion of loans insured by the FHA dwindled to a mere 2% of the market.

Now, lenders have nowhere else to turn. According to the Mortgage Banker’s Association, 30% of all July loan applications had FHA backing and, without a means or credit requirement, it’s the riskiest borrowers who are being shunted onto the government's books. (See "FHA's Risky Business.")

As the housing crisis cascaded, Washington looked for a mechanism to keep the mortgage market liquid. Enter the FHA. Like a competitive eater with a blindfold, the FHA is being force-fed loans that private lenders and other government programs won't swallow in an effort to shore up the industry.

Last month, the U.S. Congress passed, and President Bush signed, a massive housing bill that would allow the FHA to insure up to $300 billion of new mortgages. It also gave the Department of the Treasury authority to purchase shares of Fannie Mae (nyse: FNM - news - people ) and Freddie Mac (nyse: FRE - news - people ), the floundering mortgage giants.

"To this point the FHA does not need money," says Richard X. Bove of Ladenburg Thalmann. "Once the new housing act is in effect, it is very likely taxpayer money will be needed."


It's not what the agency planned. Since 2005, FHA Commissioner Brian Montgomery has been working to go the other way, pushing for modernization. Among the provisions he wanted were access to the most basic tools of risk management, the capacity to charge higher premiums to riskier borrowers and the ability to reward better bets to even out the agency’s total liabilities.

But when the housing bill passed, that idea was put on the back burner. The FHA was saddled with a one-year restriction on charging risk premiums. As a consequence, the agency's ballooning portfolio is priced with no accounting for the fact that many of its borrowers lack substantial down payments, nor are they required to.

Even in this sinking market, borrowers only need to put 3% down to qualify for FHA backing, and borrowers currently unable to pay their adjustable-rate mortgages after the rates reset are allowed to refinance into FHA-backed mortgages.

FHA Commissioner Montgomery wouldn’t hazard a final bailout figure or comment on Cecala's analysis. “Right now, we just don’t know how bad it will be,” he says.

For the obliterated lending industry, FHA insurance is a hot product because of its enticing, credit-blind terms. Mortgage outfits are lining up to become licensed FHA-lenders. Since April, the number of FHA lenders has grown to 12,000 from 10,000, pumping a flood of subprime borrowers onto FHA's rolls.

“It’s clear in this market that there are no other low down-payment type mortgages that FHA specializes in,” says Jay Brinkman, an economist at Mortgage Banker’s Association. He also said that moving forward, the sheer surge in loan volume will present a challenge because that kind of sudden growth “at any operation, no matter how well run, will expose any existing problems.”

Brinkman added that “in the longer term, the question is, 'What is the credit profile that FHA is taking on?' ”

That profile is unlikely to be good. “It’s all about adverse selection with FHA,” said Cecala. “Somebody who has a 750 credit score and 20% down is not going to pick an FHA loan. You’re definitely getting a riskier borrower that simply wouldn’t qualify for mortgage insurance in the private sector.”

With U.S. home prices down 10% in the last 12 months and expected to fall perhaps 10% more in the coming year, the vast majority of homes the FHA insures in 2008 will be underwater. Requiring only a small down payment in a declining market is extremely risky because negative home equity has proved the best indicator for default in this housing cycle.

No lender in the private sector--even Fannie and Freddie, who have higher fees in falling markets--have the risk tolerance for making losing bets like this. They all require 10% to 20% on a mortgage in this sort of environment. But they're not the government.

“If it costs upwards of $500 billion down the road, should it not be done?” asks Cecala. “If it keeps the market running and FHA becomes the lender of last resort, policymakers really don't have an alternative.”

Nor, it seems, do taxpayers.


2008-08-26 13:34:23
Gdm
Posts: 109
Incept: 2008-07-24
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Quote:
What DPA company was involved with your sale?


It was called Neighborhood Gold. Just did a search and it appears to have been purchased by BuyersFund and then ceased operation as of 7/3/2007. It appears the IRS did not agree they were acting as a true 501c3...go figure. Pay me 3% to make the seller inflate the sales contract and then make a "gift" of the same amount and that's not a charity???

http://www.buyersfund.com/index.asp

2008-08-26 14:09:35
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